Demanded to attend employee outings

[ohrtonz]

So this isn't just about work but about personalities of others as well. And what drives them to demand that you hang out with them for their benefit.

So I said months ago I did not want to attend baseball game with employees because they are very long and I have no interest. I can do other more valuable things. Even if I only stay for a short time for the BBQ. I actually did previously attened one of them before and stayed the whole time. I wasn't going to keep doing it.

There was a game where clients were invited and boss said to everyone "it is mandatory". I thought it was wrong to demand to do PR and interact with clients off the clock, also clients will probably ask job related help questions, also my personal life for small talk is not for clients. Reading too much into it? Could it still be somewhat fun and something to do? Yes, but only if I had nothing better to do. Which I always do.

Anyways I didnt go. And boss asked me what could possibly more important than the game. Im not sure if he was taking offense that I dont like sports or was upset I wasn't going to hang out with clients.

Then there was another one. Boss would put words in my mouth. Tell people that "he is going" and say to me "you're going" very demanding like. Never saying "i would like for you to go. will you?". "Just come for the food". So I did just that. I came, found a far away parking spot. Walked a few blocks, ate food then immediately left. Didnt say a word to anyone. He smiled and was like "HEY YOU CAME! Thanks for coming!"

No one was in their branded work shirts. There was no signs or display of promoting the company in public. There were no clients. I have come to the conclusion there was no benefit to him or the company for me to go except to surround himself with people and have fun at my expense.

I dont always eat breakfast so at work lunches in the office I eat a lot so it seems to others. Though I am having just as much as anyone else it seems to me. Someone joked "do you not get any food at home?". I was thinking that for the baseball game I was going to be sarcastic "yes I came and drove out here. Wasted all this time for some hot dogs and hamburgers because we are almost out of rations at home." I told a coworker I would rather spend $20 on a night out and at restaurants with friends than sit around at a boring baseball game eating free hotdogs.

So I ask. This is norm with just every day social gatherings? That extroverts like to surround themselves with people to have fun. Even if those people aren't really their friends. But they put pressure on them to come?

I just really don't understand why it was so important for me to go. For someone else to decide what is fun for me and what I should do.

I host movie nights and LAN parties and I enjoy having people I know and friends over. Its usually the same group people. But i never demand they come. I dont even ask them to come. Friends hang out every weekend and if we happen to all be available it creates a good time.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Re: Demanded to attened employee outtings

First let me make the disclaimer that I am not defending or condoning the practice but merely trying to explain it. Since I don't know the specifics of your situation I'll speak generically.

Many boss/manager types have it in their heads that employees who like each other will work together better. They often attend seminars where speakers stress such things. The method most common to obtaining this is to get them all together outside the normal work environment doing an activity that might be considered "fun". They are hoping you will develop a sense of comaraderie and kinship with your fellow workers which is useful in developing teamwork. Bosses love love love teamwork (in theory at least).

Your situation involving clients works much the same way since you apparently have to work with these clients. If you develop even the slightest bit of friendship and familiarity with them, you become more likely to go that extra step in working with them. You are no longer thinking of them as a mere client but as "Jack, the guy who caught that foul ball and puts way too much mustard on his hot dogs."

You're lucky to have been in a situation where you could make an appearance, be seen and then duck out like that. It's a bad decision on your bosses part to set up a situation where you could get away with that. I've seen many where you are stuck and can't leave so easily or without your absence being noted. You would have gotten in trouble if your leaving was noticable.

 

[ApostateAbe]

Re: Demanded to attened employee outtings

It seems to be in your interest to kiss ass and build a positive repertoire with your boss, your coworkers, and especially your clients, even if that takes away some time from your personal life, even if you have little interest in baseball or barbecues. Demanding that you go to such things and twisting your arm is far better, in my opinion, than you choosing not to go and them privately thinking that you are a dick, arrogant, not a team player, not a PR advantage, which will most certainly hurt you in a time like this when there are ten other people knocking on the boss' door asking for your job.

I finally decided to adblock avatars, and I found my first two in this thread. They are images I would rather not look at in the morning before breakfast.

 

[EditorOne]

"There was a game where clients were invited and boss said to everyone "it is mandatory". I thought it was wrong to demand to do PR and interact with clients off the clock"

Yes, if it was mandatory, you should be paid.

I can't believe people are still subjected to this crap in this day and age, when every other person with a job is in human resources.

Need some information, stop when you think it's too much.
What country?
What state?
How big is your company? (multinational, big but not giant, one location, fewer than 20 employees, etc.)
Is it a relatively new business?
Do you have a human resources department?
Does your job description say anything at all about client interactions?


Because here's the deal: Unless it's a tiny new startup, or it was spelled out when you were hired, somebody ought to know better.

You can either complain to human resources that you're being forced to work unpaid hours (which is illegal in most civilized countries, and also opens them up to serious financial liability when gleeful and rapacious government accountants start swarming their books) or you can go to your boss and say if he wants to treat you like a partner, with your after-hours involvement necessary, then maybe there ought to be a partnership agreement written up so you get to share everything, not just time spent socializing clients.

If I seem a little more strident than some, it's because I've spent my entire life watching people go out of their way to try to fit in to their company, professionally and personally, only to realize that in the end none of it mattered when it came time to cut people to keep profits up. Across the board, every company I either worked for or observed. In the end, you're an expense item on the payroll and a potential liability on the insurance plan.

Additionally, those people are not your friends. They are your work colleagues. They deserve your attention, your courtesy, your responsiveness and your best work effort, but not your presence after work for work-related socializing and client-bussing. If you WANT to make them your friends rather than your colleagues, that's up to you. So long as you are not difficult to work with (and therefore liable to progressive discipline leading to termination as 'retaliation' for standing on principle in this) I really think the most professional thing to do is insist that they stop pressuring you on the social end.

 

[Claverhouse]

Two minutes at any activity one dislikes is two minutes too long.


Failing EditorOne's correct suggestions, I would say send him a bill for your time and gas. But that would prolly get you fired. *sighs*



Or reckon up a list of small, non-traceable, non-violent annoyances to inflict upon him in proportion to how much you feel he should pay for stealing time. ( A spoonful of honey mixed in a gallon of water sprayed at night over his car will make it a popular venue for insects in hot weather. )





Claverhouse

 

[Methuselah]

The only thing I have to say is, "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down."

You like your job? Play nice and don't be a diva. Offices are teams, especially masculine ones, and you don't want to be little bitch outside of the in-group.

 

[EditorOne]

"Offices are teams, especially masculine ones, and you don't want to be little bitch outside of the in-group."

A. Your softball team is a team. Your office is a corporation attempting to profit from your genetically inherited propensity to work in small groups.
B. Going along to get along is not a strong point for INTPs.
C. Getting hammered for standing on principle IS part of the INTP package.
D. Various scents used in trapping foxes, or luring them for photography, will, when applied to the back of someone's home doorknob or the underside of a car door latch, give them a very odd odor indeed for an entire day that they'll be at some trouble to find, remove and explain. It will also make them attractive to dogs. The scents are inexpensive and can be googled on the Web. (As an alternative to the honey/water spray in case your imagination is working.)

 

[Claverhouse]

There was a tradition --- dunno if true --- that dog-thieves ( yep, these existed in places as far apart as New York and London way back when dogs were far more highly valued than they are now --- a good terrier or a lapdog might fetch as much as a diamond-encrusted gold iPod snatched from a Russian 'businessman' today "Big Reward !!! It's not ze value that matters: it's ze information thet's important." ) used to sprinkle aniseed on their trousers to lure dogs away.

This doesn't say much for dogs' taste, natürlich. Then again they eat and sniff all sorts of things we wouldn't.


I would never forgive anyone who dragged me out to a ballgame.




Claverhouse

 

[Fukyo]

The only thing I have to say is, "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down."

You like your job? Play nice and don't be a diva. Offices are teams, especially masculine ones, and you don't want to be little bitch outside of the in-group.

+1 for hate against humanity.

 

[ohrtonz]

I like the first point made in the first response. That maybe another reason is the boss thought he could force us all to get along. For anyone's information it is a small company. 10 or less. Usually only 4 people in the office at a time. And I am friendly with others and laugh and talking about funny things clients do. I even talk about new music releases and weird movies. We all as a company have monthly lunches in the office. I think all of us already get along well and jokingly while on the job as it is.

I like helping out and working together on projects. Im not trying to make a scene and prove points. I just think it left me in a weird situation for the first and continuous requests for people to attend were with demanding attitude like that's the way it is going to be. I thought it was rude since we are all so friendly with each other. He could have made his request nicer and not left me feel cornered. Of course everyone else likes sports and has family. So they don't have better things to do like a younger person like me.

I almost wanted to ask him myself. Because sometimes people just puzzle me so much on their motives.

He just wants things the way he says I think. Wanted to cut a client off because they wanted a lower bill. I said it costs us virtually nothing to keep the client on, they were previously very happy with my services, they aren't upset, they are just trying to compare deals, and I would lower it. Some money is better than no money, an upset client, and one less item in our examples is a worse idea. I had to explain our costs to him myself because his instance solution was cut them off. He put no thought into it at all or asked me. I still not sure if they have paid yet, and they are still using our services for free now because billing hasnt made a solution. Lol.

 

[Vrecknidj]

I work for a school that has mandatory events, meetings, weekends, etc., more often than I can stomach. Alas, I need an income, and, where I live, the unemployment rate is outrageous.

If I didn't have a wife and kids who really kinda deserve food and shelter and all that rot, I would quit the job, because it causes insane amounts of stress. The mandatory stuff is just stress compiled on stress.

I'm with you, I find it irrelevant and don't want to do it.

Dave

 

[Methuselah]

+1 for hate against humanity.

Mind you that for me, the desire to be competent usually overrides the instinct to say FUUUUU and burn bridges, at least when my career is concerned. But I am very Type A about that stuff. From that perspective, my response is apt.

If, however, he doesn't care about his job, and he's just serving as a cog in the machine, then the OP should feel free to bitch. But that still might cost him his job.

For the most part, other people don't care about our social sensitivities. And if someone told me that they didn't want to be outside and that they would rather go have a LAN party, I would make fun of them behind their back for all of eternity. But that is because me and my friends are a-holes.

 

[Razare]

I propose a third option, a great excuse. You can bow out without offending the boss's vision of what the company baseball outing should be. "I would love to go, but I have to do X." He's a busy guy too (I think), he'll understand.

That will get you by next time, at least. Repeated uses may arrouse suspicion. And yes, I'm very passive aggressive. I hate to lie, but when confronted with situations like this it's often best for everyone involved.


Oh and... If you purposefully schedule something for that day, you're not really lying either. I've done that a few times for various things I wanted to get out of.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

I propose a third option, a great excuse. You can bow out without offending the boss's vision of what the company baseball outing should be. "I would love to go, but I have to do X." He's a busy guy too (I think), he'll understand.

That will get you by next time, at least. Repeated uses may arrouse suspicion. And yes, I'm very passive aggressive. I hate to lie, but when confronted with situations like this it's often best for everyone involved.


Oh and... If you purposefully schedule something for that day, you're not really lying either. I've done that a few times for various things I wanted to get out of.

It would really help if you have kids, church or charity obligations that you can use as an excuse. It would certainly put your boss in an awkward situation to try to make you cancel.

Of course that would mean participating in one of those things.

 

[Cavallier]

C. Getting hammered for standing on principle IS part of the INTP package.

Heh, I quit a job once and was deliriously happy about it because I was doing it based on principle. Sadly I had some trouble paying my bills afterward. Never regretted it though.

I suggest just being straight forward about it. Often people are just blind and don't recognize that they are abusing their power:

Boss: There is an event next week. It's mandatory!

You: You got it. Sounds great. You'll just add on an extra hour of pay to my check for this right?

The key is sounding positive about the meeting while at the same time making sure you'll get paid. Try to make it sound like it's just a small detail you wanted to iron out. If they hedge and say that you won't get paid you give them an incredulous look and say, "You said it was mandatory though. It's silly to have a mandatory event at work you don't get paid for it." If they balk some more it's time to get the hell out...or talk to HR I guess. Besides, they'll be pissed at you for calling them out at that point anyway.

You could spread discontent among the troops. Ask around if anybody thought it was odd you didn't get paid for mandatory events. I'm sure you're not the only one disgruntled.

 

[Razare]

I think it's going to depend on the work environment. If it's a corporation, you'd better get paid. Like he said, though, it's a 10 employee group of workers. I wouldn't make it a point of contention if it's a once a year thing. It's not worth it unless you're willing to job hunt.

 

[Trebuchet]

Re: Demanded to attened employee outtings

Boss: There is an event next week. It's mandatory!

You: You got it. Sounds great. You'll just add on an extra hour of pay to my check for this right?

The key is sounding positive about the meeting while at the same time making sure you'll get paid. Try to make it sound like it's just a small detail you wanted to iron out. If they hedge and say that you won't get paid you give them an incredulous look and say, "You said it was mandatory though. It's silly to have a mandatory event at work you don't get paid for it." If they balk some more it's time to get the hell out...or talk to HR I guess. Besides, they'll be pissed at you for calling them out at that point anyway.

I feel for you. That sucks. However...

Don't do this unless you want to quit. Get another job lined up first. If I had done that two bosses ago, it would have been a disaster. That boss expected me to work 12 hour days (because I was on salary and didn't get overtime) and when I signed up for a weekly class that started 3 hours after work officially ended, and told her I'd have to leave no more than 2.5 hours late, she called me in to let me know that work came first and I wasn't being a team player.

With that boss, it would have gone like this:

Boss: Our department is going to a baseball game. We'll go directly from work. If you can't be one of the drivers, let me know immediately. Wear khaki pants and a blue polo shirt, and black shoes. No shorts. No one should have condiments on their hot dogs in case their clothes get stained - that would look bad in front of clients. Also no onions so you won't have bad breath, unless you bring a toothbrush. And let me remind you that you represent this company AT ALL TIMES, even when not at work, and you are not to be seen drinking alcohol in public. We'll leave work at 5:00. We're giving you the extra hour and a half off for this event without any penalties to you. Come to my office to collect your ticket after three o'clock today.

Me: Great! So you'll add the extra time to our paychecks?

Boss: We need to have a conversation about your attitude. You are not a team player, and you aren't synergizing with everyone else. This looks very bad for our department, and I'm going to have to include that as an area for improvement on your review.

Of course I left, but it took over a year to find a new job, so I just sufferend in silence for a long time.

My point is, a boss who sets this kind of situation up is not going to take kindly to you dismissing it. They want to be thanked for it. They think they've done something great, to make you happy and the team better. If this kind of situation is rare, or if you have a dream commute, just go with it. Otherwise maybe you can find a new position somewhere.

I finally decided to adblock avatars, and I found my first two in this thread. They are images I would rather not look at in the morning before breakfast.

Funny, I did that two minutes before I read this, for similar reasons, though I don't care if it is before or after breakfast.

 

[Cavallier]

Boss: We need to have a conversation about your attitude. You are not a team player, and you aren't synergizing with everyone else. This looks very bad for our department, and I'm going to have to include that as an area for improvement on your review.

Ugh. What a jerk. Yeah, I've had those types as well. I stuck with a job for another 6 months under a boss like that till I found something else. Then I dropped the old job like a hand grenade.

 

[Trebuchet]

Ugh. What a jerk. Yeah, I've had those types as well. I stuck with a job for another 6 months under a boss like that till I found something else. Then I dropped the old job like a hand grenade.

That's more or less what I did. And when I gave my two weeks notice, she acted like it was a betrayal of the company. I hope we grow from having such bosses, or else there's no point.

The weird thing was, we were women very similar in age, who grew up within 10 miles of each other, and we should have had more in common. I figure she was ESFJ, plus she was a sales and marketing person. I expect she found me incomprehensible, as I found her.

 

[Beat Mango]

Hmmm only thing I'll add is that I went to a non-mandatory one of these at work recently, and it seemed that I was having a less awkward time than some of the other people there. Finding a loud, attention-magnet person to latch onto is such a relief (although I should say that the one I went previous to this was a disaster. Just saying).

Jobs really suck, don't they. I'm surprised, actually, that so many of us here seem to have a 9-5.