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Breaking the Meta | Formalization & Structuring of Cognitive Function(s) | MBTI & BEYOND!

Brontosaurie

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See... this is what I've discovered within my own realm, this coherence. It forms a fractal that repeats in absolute fucking brilliance. And that lucky bastard TA gets to put shit into actual words, even if he'll never see the space between the filamentous structures they create.

If the same fractal is found within TA's structure (and possibly Variform's [meaning the communication gap between me and everyone else finally gets Berlin walled]) then 1) we're on to something 2) we have a guide for further discovery via enantiodromia. If the fractal repeats, then you slew of Ti-doms and criticizers may actually be useful for once. :angel:

you superior shitcrock

"i can think a bit, look at me, such wow"
 

TimeAsylums

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you superior shitcrock

"i can think a bit, look at me, such wow"

All he actually said was two things

"we need to find an agreement reality"

and a slight quip on Ti doms


I couldn't give a damn and I couldn't care less about people's egos

ego =/= validity
 

Brontosaurie

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All he actually said was two things

"we need to find an agreement reality"

and a slight quip on Ti doms

and yet he used a big pile of garbage euphemisms just for showoff

ego =/= validity

what the fuck is that supposed to mean in context

you should be denying that claim not making it, considering your gigantic egos, or at least considering that my claim is that your "theory" or whatever you call it is invalid, and that you're being egomaniacal. the inequation you produce doesn't contradict anything i've said or implied. just another pseudo-brainy piece of crap.

if you spent one moment actually exploring ideas instead of trying to appear as if you were, you'd realize that

real Ne gets foolproof creepvibes from this thread
 

TimeAsylums

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and yet he used a big pile of garbage euphemisms just for showoff

unable to comprehend why this bothers you so much

irrelevant if someone else wants to boost up/show off their own presence/ability/ego, only thing that matters is whether its true/valid

ego =/= validity

honesty >>> modesty

if you spent one moment actually exploring ideas instead of trying to appear as if you were, you'd realize that

No matter how much we claim we ARE, you won't believe us.

fyi, we are.


p.s. the ad hominems really make me respect you more bronto
 

Brontosaurie

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unable to comprehend why this bothers you so much

irrelevant if someone else wants to boost up/show off their own presence/ability/ego, only thing that matters is whether its true/valid

ego =/= validity

honesty >>> modesty

if you two were being honest, this thread would solely consist of you repeating the following conversation verbatim:

"man are we gonna do some thinking and stuff"
"damn right we are"
"there's, like, stuff that no-one else but you understands. although i understand it a little bit better than you. a little."
"we're gonna think and stuff yeah"
"yeah"
"there's some other stuff i understand a little bit better. my stuff is a little more important but it's ok because i'm a little better. it's fair anyway"
"thinking and stuff is, like, way cool man"
"yeah"

No matter how much we claim we ARE, you won't believe us.

why would i
 

Cherry Cola

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he painted a pretty accurate picture of what this looks like from an external point of view though, I'll read yo shit later TA, sorry but I've got this big test coming (like the swedish version of the SAT, and today I wasted all my brainpower trying to learn the math I need to score enough to get to study to become a psychologist).
 

TimeAsylums

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he painted a pretty accurate picture of what this looks like from an external point of view though,

His criticisms of what we have discussed so far consisted of

1. Ad hominems
2. 0 criticisms of the actual theory, simply stating that the entirety is false...via #1

whY does

---||[JP*]]| ~ everything sorta look
---||[JP*]]| ~ "like"...

->>>> ;this

[?]

i highly doubt that's the spontaneous typing workflow or layout preference of your Ne and it clearly doesn't facilitate readability either.

this thread is the worst case of ego inflation i've seen in a while. not sure if THD is just having fun pumping TA up hoping to watch him explode, or genuinely shares his naïve arrogance.

anyway take care guys. you deserve better than eating your own feet then legs then cock then torso then arms then throat then mouth and going "WOW META" over it all.

"something something; disjointed incoherent namedropping implementation of epistemology concepts puts me on top of things; it's everyone else's fault when i don't make sense and don't have a point; [some obscure smartass way of framing a connection that's actually obvious and trivial to 80 % of this forum's frequenters]; contradictions are cool when i make them, blablabla"

try what? gg allin perfected what you're dipping your toes in. try something new.

you're not promoting ease of understanding and comprehension. can your visceral-cerebral Ne mojo fathom that?

i'm also trying to help diffuse/smooth out the situation.

very Ne to not keep track of underwear re-usage, you must be one hell of a brain

yeah they're fucking idiots

that will be their final resort when all doubt about the foolishness of this endeavour has been cast aside. yes.

and yet he used a big pile of garbage euphemisms just for showoff



what the fuck is that supposed to mean in context

you should be denying that claim not making it, considering your gigantic egos, or at least considering that my claim is that your "theory" or whatever you call it is invalid, and that you're being egomaniacal. the inequation you produce doesn't contradict anything i've said or implied. just another pseudo-brainy piece of crap.

if you spent one moment actually exploring ideas instead of trying to appear as if you were, you'd realize that

real Ne gets foolproof creepvibes from this thread

if you two were being honest, this thread would solely consist of you repeating the following conversation verbatim:

"man are we gonna do some thinking and stuff"
"damn right we are"
"there's, like, stuff that no-one else but you understands. although i understand it a little bit better than you. a little."
"we're gonna think and stuff yeah"
"yeah"
"there's some other stuff i understand a little bit better. my stuff is a little more important but it's ok because i'm a little better. it's fair anyway"
"thinking and stuff is, like, way cool man"
"yeah"



why would i
See spoiler for Bronto's "criticisms."

good luck
 

EyeSeeCold

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he painted a pretty accurate picture of what this looks like from an external point of view though

Perhaps, but from the internal point of view it may seen uncalled for. Examinations need moral significance otherwise they're just nonconstructive ad hominem.
 

Brontosaurie

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So um... what have you produced?

here, on the fly, a better psychobabbular correlationatory formalizitature:

Excitatory/Inhibitory
coNtinuous/diScrete
Tentative/Final
Personal/Judicial

do some meta masturbation on this instead
 
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he painted a pretty accurate picture of what this looks like from an external point of view though

Agreed.

Perhaps, but from the internal point of view it may seen uncalled for. Examinations need moral significance otherwise they're just nonconstructive ad hominem.
Anal-lysis follows synthesis, dear bronto. You're too early.
Excitatory/Inhibitory
coNtinuous/diScrete
Tentative/Final
Personal/Judicial
Electron shells + fuzzy logic = Kraepelin waves. It's also analogous to complimentary currencies and nutrient dynamics in ecosystems.

Goes back to when I had this as my profile pic:
rTClS2o.jpg
 

Cherry Cola

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come on Bronto bring out your full goddamn arsenal of destroy in a somewhat lengthy pick apart post
 

Brontosaurie

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"this is a big mission"
"i get to be batman"
"ohh ok whatever then i'll be sonic the hedgehog AND spiderman"
"then i am batman AND earthworm jim"
"what if there were like... dimensions everywhere at every point. like in my chair, a dimension. in my head, a dimension."
"yeah i thought of that once"

^ dat thorough deconstruction
 

Pizzabeak

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THD's voice and demeanor vaguely & arbitrarily remind me of a friend of a friend...
 

Puffy

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^ He's pretty smexy also. :D
 

TBerg

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Systems theory seems so systematic...a boring borg. Does everything need assimilated? What about the dynamics that sometimes shake up the annotated chart? Would relationships occurring in all directions mean that there is never always a top-to-bottom hierarchy?
 

Black Rose

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Hive Mind Discussion

In the movie "clan of the cave bear" this concept is heavily discussed, though it isn't perhaps obvious unless you already know that's what you're looking at. Through human history Adepts are not always the famous important figures, but occasionally they do become widely known. The production of "the scientific method" as an alchemical ritual, for example, is so heavily documented for such an enormous period of time by so many different people, it's impossible to know where in the hell it came from. What we can know is that all of those contributors were Adepts, every last one. It's impossible to add anything to a Ritual such as Scientific Method without understanding its purpose at the hive level, as an Adept can. This is why sociology is a science, but psychology is just a religion in scientific clothing. This is why archaeology is a science, but anthropology is just a religion in scientific clothing.
 
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THD's voice and demeanor vaguely & arbitrarily remind me of a friend of a friend...
That comment highlights exactly what I like about you. :D
^ He's pretty smexy also. :D
...... :cat:
Systems theory seems so systematic...a boring borg. Does everything need assimilated? What about the dynamics that sometimes shake up the annotated chart? Would relationships occurring in all directions mean that there is never always a top-to-bottom hierarchy?
Yes and no. This was a Te-Ne skeleton that was not comprehensive at all. Unfortunately my notes (and everything else) were separated from me in my luggage and now reside 1700 miles away in Baltimore MD for another week, but this is what I came up with last night, which is... sort of cohesive.

But, digressing...

This is just a Te-Ne skeleton. Gaps need filled in, and when they are, the repeating fractal will be highlighted. I didn't get the shot to scale up from ecosystem ecology through astrophysics et al, and we're working down through psychology to ultimately tie in spiritual qualia, which would either 1) complete the loop (toroid) or 2) form a different structure entirely (I'm thinking the ol' double helix, but that's speculation at this point [said as if this all isn't speculation :D]). I want to know what Ne-Ti/Ti-Ne, Ni-Ti, Te-Ni/Ni-Te can do with this.

Does everything need assimilated? It already is. :phear:

"What about the dynamics that sometimes shake up the annotated chart?"

What do you mean? What are they? (This is exactly the kind of thing I need to build the wall :phear:)

"Would relationships occurring in all directions mean that there is never always a top-to-bottom hierarchy?"

Not in all directions without structure. It's going to be without hierarchy in the ouroboros sense but with defined structure in the fractal sense (in the sense of the holographic universe sense) within the over-arching microtubule-esque model.
^ :eek:
 

Cavallier

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By economics he means he going to use math to lie to us. :evil:

Jesus Christ. I wasted half an hour of my life on this and all you did was hit the basic points of an ecology course. While I find the interplay between growing and declining bio-systems interesting I don't like being dropped into the middle of a poor man's power-point presentation with nothing to cling to. Doing that makes the whole endeavor fruitless. I wants my big picture nao!

:facepalm:

Edit: Nice shins HAB. Perhaps you should include those in your lectures. :o

Edit 2.0: INFP? *sigh* Stop the forum! I wanna get off now.
 

Ex-User (9062)

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THD, your voice seems forced.
Especially compared to your laughter.

What do you think?
 

Lot

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THD, your voice seems forced.
Especially compared to your laughter.

What do you think?


If his voice was forced, then he was forcing it the whole time I was with him, as well.
 

Ex-User (9086)

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By economics he means he going to use math to lie to us. :evil:

Jesus Christ. I wasted half an hour of my life on this and all you did was hit the basic points of an ecology course. While I find the interplay between growing and declining bio-systems interesting I don't like being dropped into the middle of a poor man's power-point presentation with nothing to cling to. Doing that makes the whole endeavor fruitless. I wants my big picture nao!
That was my reaction until I realised that this whole thing was more focused on MBTI and the last 10 minutes, rather than the content, it was a good presentation of THD's way of being and expressing.
 

doncarlzone

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It looks like TA just dropped by on his skateboard while THD was trying to invent a time machine
 

Base groove

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THD, your voice seems forced.
Especially compared to your laughter.

What do you think?

Using the diaphragm to create a natural pressure gradient which forces air out of the lungs and past the larynx,

Positioning the tongue in such a way to force the waves into a particular shape and character,

Pressure gradient forces tympanic membrane to oscillate, oscillating membrane applies forces to cochlear fulid-bay creating yet another wave-form

Cochlear fluid waves apply force to hair-cells/auditory stimulation cells on organ of corti,

Stimulated cells elicit Action Potential (the forces are becoming smaller).........

As far as I can tell the same thing happens with laughter.

What do you think?
I dunno how did I do?
 
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I wants my big picture nao!

:facepalm:

Edit: Nice shins HAB. Perhaps you should include those in your lectures. :o

Edit 2.0: INFP? *sigh* Stop the forum! I wanna get off now.
"I wanna get off now"
So like... legit. Confine our ramblings into a single thread and I'll keep it within those thread boundaries. THD's Compendium might work for all involved, meta thread included.

The intended audience was... TA, the non-Ecologist. :D I.... you just made me look at my shins in a public library. Not sure what to think of that. :o

So... yeah, this was a shitty pile of mental vomit. It will progress in the following manner through various stages of refinement:
Mental vomit <-YOU ARE HERE
V
Really cool looking mental vomit with bloody specks
V
Jackson Pollack painting
V
A Picasso on acid
V
An actual Picasso
V
Monet
V
Ansel Adams' Tenyata Creek Dogwood in Yosemite​
THD, your voice seems forced.
Especially compared to your laughter.

What do you think?
I think I'm possessed, tbh. Analogous to True Will? (Respond via PM if you want to respond)
good presentation of THD's way of being and expressing.
meh
It looks like TA just dropped by on his skateboard while THD was trying to invent a time machine
:D
h2C65B82F
 
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A little more cohesive explanation of the pile of junk you're seeing... The Wall:

The completed Wall:
[bimgx=600]http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs40/f/2009/052/6/4/Here_is_your_f__cking_tetris_by_cdlink.jpg[/bimgx]
Currently:
[bimgx=600]http://cdn.superbwallpapers.com/wallpapers/games/tetris-14234-1920x1200.jpg[/bimgx]
Portion contained in the... 90 minutes (?) of effort put into the vid:
[bimgx=500]http://www.crosswordfiend.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Tetris-safe.jpg[/bimgx]
lvNmU3M.png

Wherein in raster space each interval along the x axis represents a unique system/process and y axis (astrophysics through freaking psychology :ahh:) intervals represent levels of organization. Matrix algebra of the raster space reveals the underlying fractal Deleuzean rhizome. :angel:

Why do I build the wall the way I do? Because it doesn't matter what's coming next, whatever it is is going somewhere, amirite?

*EDIT: Oh, and the finished wall in hyperspace, inspired by Dor:
pvB0Eab.gif
 

TimeAsylums

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Before I had posted FIN and finished the structure, I had e-mailed Dario Nardi* a copy of my structure, he finally got back to me, just for anyone who is curious

To Dario Nardi From TA said:
a bit incomplete, but eh.


http://www.intpforum.com/showpost.php?p=424017&postcount=94


what do you have so far? I’m curious
From Dario Nardi said:
Hey timeasylums,

Thank you for thinking of me and reaching out. On the web page in question, there are a ton of links, and I followed enough of them to know I shouldn't comment unless I read more of them, considering all the terms used.

That said, there is one thing, a deep issue, one you touch on, whether the functions *use* certain cognitive processes, or whether the functions are the cognitive processes themselves. This is intriguing.

From a practical standpoint, such as in workshops, I say, "We can use the Jungian functions, though at times they use us, or are unavailable, and that we tend to use (and thus develop) specific brain regions to meet our practical and psychological needs." Thus, I'm implying that the functions tend to use specific cognitive processes.

Why do I say this to workshop participants? Because I wish to empower them to consider themselves as conscious agents who can self-develop, or at least be open to aid. They have a lot of latitude. The definitions of the functions have latitude.

Psychological type historian Peter Geyer (INTP) proffers that Jung didn't consider his offering as a model. Rather, psychological type acts as a framework, strange attractor, or mandala. If we define the functions precisely, we limit their nature, and our nature; and as a psychiatrist, his agenda was to help people grow outside their limits, hopefully in a healthy way. It's not simply that the functions were inspired by his interest in mandalas; the functions *are* mandalas. And like a mandala, which acts as an object for meditation and discovery via both the conscious and unconscious, the functions are a tool for unlimited personal growth.

If that sounds vague, in mathematical terms, for a different audience, I say the functions could be "strange attractors". With a background in complex systems, the term means something very specific. If so, there is a happy convergence as the behaviors of systems with strange attractors are circumscribed within particular bounds but resist typical means of definition and prediction.

No doubt Peter Geyer would use different and more precise language if he were responding to you. And he would send you lots of readings! Anyway, thought you might this parallel and some of the leads interesting.

Regards,
Dario

View attachment 2256


fuxk yeah :smoker:


*the neuroscientist scanning teh brainz for the locations/correlations of brain functions and cognitive functions...he has some books out,

His book: Neuroscience of Personality: Brain Savvy Insights for All Types of People: Dario Nardi: 9780979868474: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51X3Jtq16ZL.@@AMEPARAM@@51X3Jtq16ZL

I have honestly yet to read it, only segments, but I will find it and read it.


Parts of his book: http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/92291-dario-nardis-neuroscience-personality.html

powerpoint: http://www.pdx.edu/sysc/sites/www.pdx.edu.sysc/files/neuro-systems.pdf
 
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So in other words.... you're not yet done with psychology. :p

*EDIT: "but I will find it and read it"
 

TimeAsylums

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So in other words.... you're not yet done with psychology. :p

no, in other words, I am done, I simply sent the structure out to other people in the typology~related fields.

:smoker:

Another +1 for agreement reality
 

Black Rose

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http://www.kurzweilai.net/forums/to...psychic-formulation-of-a-new-measure-of-order

What I think you need in your network levels are probes of imagination. Systems are built on axioms that diverge into new systems. Pruning at a lower level can devastate what may be coherent such as a song which has no utility but is a pleasant ratio-nality. Links weight change built up isomorphic components so some can include subsystems. The self inclusion or loops is seeing where you are in relation to the total outside the self in the super set.
Connections can become nodes themselves. From what I was trying to demonstrate in my "birth of all reality" story.
1 becomes 2
2 becomes 3 sets
3 nodes can create 7 sets
(7 nodes)
7 set of 1
7 set of 2
7 set of 3
7 set of 4
7 set of 5
7 set of 6
and 1 set of 7
By doing this sets or nodes may branch an layer well retaining sub components. Pruning then is only for sets that become redundant or can be in a compression algorithm. The probes are when new nodes are created and tested if it violates the axioms of lower levels but the lower levels are weighted to be true false or fuzzy logic. Many ways of thinking of a problem are branching and looping so with my dodecahedron cell, it has a many models inside itself that compete to be the best model of input prediction to lower entropy. All models cannot be tested in real time so it uses imagination to generate models and extrapolate from memory. Models are ordered by best fit and eliminating some for finite data usually the worst models.
This is an idea I had in 2007 in high school. If it added branching and pruning it may work well for some applications.
http://www.challenge.nm.org/archive/06-07/finalreports/48.pdf

http://neuropolitics.org/chapter2.asp
 
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