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Blabbering

CatGoddess

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Since people are posting about problems they have, here's (one of) mine. I blabber for far too long whenever I try to get my point across. While others can actually say something with concision, I... can't. Does anyone else have this problem? Any tips on communicating effectively with fewer words?
 

lightfire

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I'm used to other people doing all the talking, or talking over me, and sometimes I'm just like "and can you just get to the point now please god make it stop"

I guess have the point in mind and then talk around it.
 

onesteptwostep

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Communication is not just an exchange of ideas but of emotions, too. Emotions is probably the ingredient that's lacking in your communication, which is why you have to explain things in a roundabout manner in order for you to feel that the other person had understood you. In order to be good at this you have to also be good at reading emotions, as well as expressing your own in a restrained and poised, articulate manner. EQ, not IQ!
 

Serac

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I think it's a matter of making a good assessment of how the counterparty thinks, so as to not bore them with details they already know, but also not saying stuff that goes over their head because they lack the context for the information.

i.e. theory of mind

but also probably not being afraid of being misunderstood
 

CatGoddess

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onesteptwostep said:
be good at reading emotions, as well as expressing your own in a restrained and poised, articulate manner. EQ, not IQ!
Maybe so, and, yeah, my EQ is terrible, but I don't really know what to do about it. Like, how can I communicate my emotions to other people if I can't even communicate them to myself? Are EQ and IQ fixed, or can they be changed? I've never seen a need to "work on" the latter because it's high enough that it's never caused me problems, but I've certainly tried to understand people's emotions more. Doesn't seem to work super well in my experience.

serac said:
but also probably not being afraid of being misunderstood
I guess I am kinda afraid of being misunderstood. Maybe it'll go away when I get older? I mean, most people wouldn't want to be misunderstood by their boss for instance since it would probably result in something shitty. As a minor it would be bad for me to be misunderstood by parents, relatives, teachers, or pretty much any adult. Or anyone who can beat me up XD. So I guess it's partially a rational fear and partially the result of unintentional conditioning (get hit if your words are misconstrued to be something offensive/rude/etc. ---> desire to not have your words misconstrued).

It also does waste time to be misunderstood, because then you have to explain yourself later.
 

Niclmaki

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As an ENTP, I’m pretty sure Ne (extraverted intuition) works.

If I have a point to make, I usually tell a short story first that has supporting evidence. Then I say the conclusion.

For years I would only tell stories that circled around the point so the listener could say the point. There’s a certain kind of people who will never get it unless you just flatly say it though. So, the “saying the conclusion” part has been the work of concious effort for a while now.

There’s even a smaller subset that are never pleased however you say your point though. You just say your conclusion, they denand evidence. You say your evidence, they say hurry up and get to your point.

I will also ramble on if I keep thinking about something because I have to keep into account all the possible exceptions. Otherwise, I’m only speaking half-truths. The theorizing starts coming and won’t stop coming though, so it is tough.
 
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think about the desired outcome of what you're trying to convey

say the things pertinent to the outcome and discard the rest
 

Happy

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If anything, I cut my statements short. I don’t want to waste people’s time. Brevity is king.
 

Serac

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at least in my experience, a nice and concrete way to improve one's communication is to become good at making analogies – i.e. make a guess as to what sort of concepts the counterparty is familiar with and then explain it in those terms.
 

Judd_INTP

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This was difficult for me as well. Being a global thinker, and an idea person (and being married to an esfj), I have had to 1)briefly pinpoint the idea I want to convey. 2) take that global scaffold I know you have in your brain and find the connections from your point to the supporting /influencing factors and isolate those. 3) Group like factors, keep it to three. 4) state the problem, state the solution, use your three factors to back up the solution. Then ...If you have caught the interest of people around you, they will ask you questions about your factors....and you can expound. If not, let the conversation migrate on. PS. If you are dealing with an esfj, you will have to ask them questions about their thought process. Listen with feelings, not your head....that's a hard one too.
 

jawdropper

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to me communication is
80% energy exchange
20% info

i prefer to let them know what i'm about using my bare hands
 

Pizzabeak

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It's all just saying specific things "to reduce time wasted" so it sounds like you aren't saying random things, "so people can understand what you're saying". You don't get time to joke around, since people take everything you do as if it were done with 100% effort. The more subtle the joke, the better. Actions speak louder than words, deny all you want. Strength in numbers is relative, like anything else is.

"People just look at you, then do the opposite..." A lot of extroverts think they're introverts because they can be quiet when someone (literally) talks to them. Then, introverts are pressured into talking more, which makes them end up looking like extroverts... Who are less valuable than introverts, because people are attracted to quiet, smart, clever, intelligent people. Books are going out of fashion so it's all about watching stuff now. It's a conundrum, nothing more. It's just people playing games.
 

Judd_INTP

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It's all just saying specific things "to reduce time wasted" so it sounds like you aren't saying random things, "so people can understand what you're saying". You don't get time to joke around, since people take everything you do as if it were done with 100% effort. The more subtle the joke, the better. Actions speak louder than words, deny all you want. Strength in numbers is relative, like anything else is.

"People just look at you, then do the opposite..." A lot of extroverts think they're introverts because they can be quiet when someone (literally) talks to them. Then, introverts are pressured into talking more, which makes them end up looking like extroverts... Who are less valuable than introverts, because people are attracted to quiet, smart, clever, intelligent people. Books are going out of fashion so it's all about watching stuff now. It's a conundrum, nothing more. It's just people playing games.
Huh?
 

Pizzabeak

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It's all just saying specific things "to reduce time wasted" so it sounds like you aren't saying random things, "so people can understand what you're saying". You don't get time to joke around, since people take everything you do as if it were done with 100% effort. The more subtle the joke, the better. Actions speak louder than words, deny all you want. Strength in numbers is relative, like anything else is.

"People just look at you, then do the opposite..." A lot of extroverts think they're introverts because they can be quiet when someone (literally) talks to them. Then, introverts are pressured into talking more, which makes them end up looking like extroverts... Who are less valuable than introverts, because people are attracted to quiet, smart, clever, intelligent people. Books are going out of fashion so it's all about watching stuff now. It's a conundrum, nothing more. It's just people playing games.
Huh?
I have some friends, and we were talking about this the other day, but we think people who act like they don't know what certain people are talking about some of the time, are either legitimately retarded, lying to themselves and/or others, or are proofs of a conspiracy, all in on their joke together, it's where autism comes from, the cycle of repetition:

Doctor: you're insane, you need help
You: I'm not crazy, let me out of here!
Doctor: *takes notes. that's precisely what a crazy person would say! It says here *points to a chapter in textbook. See!
You: ...

It's basically politics.
 

Judd_INTP

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Or said statement has no rational structure. It is rambling nonsense.
 

Pizzabeak

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Or said statement has no rational structure. It is rambling nonsense.
Your life is nonsense. The "statement", which is actually a collection of statements, thus a kind of "paragraph", responded to the topic of this thread. It isn't about any other country, or what bills are getting signed, or what treaties are mediating the wars. Therefore, your statement(s) are of no rationale. You are babbling to me, why, I do not know. Please don't write to me again. I'm ignoring you.
 

Pizzabeak

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Pizzabeak

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CatGoddess

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jawdropper said:
to me communication is
80% energy exchange
20% info
To be honest, I don't really like talking to most people because it saps the energy from me. Sometimes I have to, though, and I'm always getting berated for not getting to the point fast enough...

@Niclmaki Yeah, pretty much everything you said.

serac said:
at least in my experience, a nice and concrete way to improve one's communication is to become good at making analogies – i.e. make a guess as to what sort of concepts the counterparty is familiar with and then explain it in those terms.
I do try that sometimes; maybe I'll do it more often/more consciously, thanks. Although, some people don't seem to understand what I'm trying to say to them no matter how I phrase it. Usually, rather than finding a solution to the communication barrier, I'll just ignore it by avoiding talking to that person as much as possible.

@Polaris I guess you deleted your post...? Oh well, thanks for the hug... Actually, I used to hate hugs, but I suppose my friend has changed my mind on that in the past few years. Hmm, wise beyond my years, though? I don't know. I never know how to respond when someone tells me anything that could be construed as a compliment on my person (rather than, say, my work; in other words a "you're nice" rather than a "good job".) and it makes me slightly uncomfortable irl because I feel like it would be egotistical and awkward to acknowledge it.

I basically agree with the thing about parents. You're not wrong about some of your assumption there either.

Judd_INTP said:
Or said statement has no rational structure. It is rambling nonsense.
That's just pizzabeak. Welcome to the forum. :cat:

Also, your marriage: if it makes you happy, good on you I guess, but I could never imagine living my life with somebody like that...
 

Judd_INTP

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Thanks ☺ and it is tough being married to an ESFJ, but he plays games to get his chattiness on, which gives me time to myself. He is fun and lighthearted though, and I can hide behind him at necessary social engagements. He thinks it is funny that I need a social crutch, haha. I think it's strange that he doesn't automatically disassemble thought. It works.
 

Cognisant

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@CatGoddess you're different and it's not your fault, with experience you'll find that it's not that you can't communicate it's that most people don't want to listen.

Sometimes you need to be a little rude and say things like "I'm not finished" or "if you'd let me explain" because listening is a skill too and most people are terrible at it. If you need an extra thirty seconds to make your point clearly then you take your time and you make it clear to anyone who tries to cut you off that you won't let them.
 

Polaris

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@CatGoddess I deleted the post because I was worried it was a bit too presumptious. I didn't know if what you describe as 'blabbering' was actually blabbering, or if people who are giving you a hard time about it are just being dicks, which is what it sounds like.

Also, my comment about wisdom beyond years was more of an observation than a compliment. As in, a comment on something symptomatic, so I'm sorry if it made you feel awkward.

When I was younger I used to think all people's criticisms of me were legit, and then I eventually realised this wasn't the case as communication works two ways (dhuh). Both parts need to make an effort, even if one part is a bit guilty of rambling. I mean, we don't berate people who have a stutter, and if someone tends to ramble a bit because they genuinely struggle to express themselves, we give them a bit of rope. While I think 'good communication skills' are important, I think there is a tendency to take this a bit too far in terms of the context. For example, using someone's poor communication skills as a reason to completely dismiss them.

But of course, the person trying to get the message across should also be aware that information sometimes needs to be more efficient, depending on context. It is definitely to one's own benefit. But I also wonder if the 'blabbering' you are referring to could be just rooted in anxiety. If one is used to being berated for talking it is very understandable that communication becomes a source of anxiety.

For example (forgive me for 'blabbering' about myself, but I use my own experience to make sense of others in the hope that it will make sense to them :storks:), I grew up with people who would not let me get to the word, and if I did, I would be either ridiculed, belittled or breated (or all of them at once) for whatever thoughts I had. My brother is quite a few years older than me, and mother would take his side even when I was just a little kid, simply for the reason that he was older than me, and a boy. The message was (intentional or unintentional) that being young and female was synonymous with stupid, so I learned to keep my thoughts to myself in order to be left alone. As a result I was more or less mute until my late 20s, except around Dad (when he was home, which was hardly ever), and a couple of close friends.

Of course, there are people who deliberately blabber because they simply enjoy the attention. There is someone at my work who does that. This person makes a point of explaining rather obvious things in a painstakingly detailed and patronising way because they enjoy the feeling of power it gives them. It makes them look smart, and everyone else is their disciple. They are obviously insecure, and while I usually let them blabber, I sometimes after they have finished, summarise everything they said in just one sentence....which means all they can say is: "Uhm, yes" :giggle:

I now recognise this behaviour because it is how my family wielded their power over me. They are very insecure people and I was the obvious person they could take it out on while Dad was absent. Of course, they don't do it to other people, so people generally think they are very charming and charismatic (which they are when there are other people present).

In terms of suggestions (since you asked for it): Think of it as entertainment for the other part. How can you best package the information in a way the other person finds captivating?

But I guess this is hard if it concerns a parent or other authority figure, where there is already an established power structure. In this case, it doesn't matter how you package it, because your relationship with them is controlled by them, and this is how they want things to be. No matter how you present the information it is always going to feel like a compromise because you are either being berated for being yourself, or you have to play a role in order to get 'approval'. If this is the case, it totally sucks, and I am sorry you have to endure that. It is unfortunately something you may have to put up with until you are considered 'adult'...which is ridiculous, I know. But even then, you may find that these same people will never treat you any differently, just like I found. My solution was to cut all communication. I sincerely hope this will not be the case for you.
 

Happy

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You are babbling to me, why, I do not know. Please don't write to me again. I'm ignoring you.
You’re the one babbling. Is this not evident to you?
 

Serac

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there were two women at the gym yesterday – these women were Blabbering (that's a capital B). I was thinking of various ways to make them stop, like walk over and hit on them in a creepy way (like asking if I can smell their armpits or something). But imagining that scenario amused me so much that I forgot about the whole thing and eventually they left.
 

lightfire

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I think the worst kind of blabbering is in situations that you can't control. Like on a plane when you're trying to sleep and people keep getting drunk. In other situations I can easily run away. Also people talking in the gym are silly, I'm always so focused I don't even know how people even have the time to socialize.
 
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