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Ask an ESFJ

Crystabelle

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#1
I'm an ESFJ female married to an INTP male seeking a deeper understanding -- that's why I'm here.

I'd like to return the favor. If you have any questions, thoughts, comments about ESFJs, feel free to post them here. I'm happy to help explain our perspective.

I think INTP-ESFJ relationships are the most difficult but can also lead to the most growth.
 
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#2
Did you marry him knowing he was INTP? Furthermore, did you marry him specifically because of growth potential?
 

Crystabelle

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#3
Did you marry him knowing he was INTP? Furthermore, did you marry him specifically because of growth potential?
We didn't know our types at the time. Perhaps if we knew & fully understood what it meant, we wouldn't have married. I don't recommend it.

The potential for growth was always something I valued in our relationship but I didn't fully understand how or why that was. Now, it's the only silver lining I can hold on to bc this relationship combination is incredibly difficult. Sometimes downright torturous. Again, I don't recommend it.
 

Crystabelle

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#7
Why are ESFJs so insanely attracted to introverts?
Such a good question. Not sure I have a complete or exhaustive answer.

I think we are so attracted to INTPs (and introverts) because it's in our DNA and feeds us to connect on an emotional level. INTPs seem so extremely closed off in this area. If they give us a sliver of themselves it's incredibly rewarding to us. Makes us feel like we've accomplished an insurmountable task and makes us feel special to "go where no man has gone before "

Somebody commented on another thread that ESFJs are dumb. I don't think this blanket statement is true but I do believe the intellect of the INTP is unrivaled. This is something I might not necessary have but I highly value and find extremely attractive.

Why does it seem like I (an ESFJ) can so highly value many qualities of the INTP but INTPs see little value in my qualities? I am very Feeling but I can logically rationalize to see the value in the Thinking side. Surely I have some qualities INTPs desire... Or no?
 

Serac

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#8
Second question: where do I find ESFJ women in large numbers?

I'm joking. Or am I?

But to answer your question, I have always been impressed with the combination of emotional, social, and intellectual sophistication of ESFJs. They are usually not as interested in theoretical and abstract subjects as INTPs, but can nevertheless grasp them, and somehow think in similar modes as INTPs – something which the rest of the world usually won't.
 

Crystabelle

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#9
Second question: where do I find ESFJ women in large numbers?

I'm joking. Or am I?
Lol. Don't do it!!! The heartache for the ESFJ that will ensue is pure torture. And maybe for the INTP as well. Not worth it.

But if you want to find us in order to simply investigate and expand your own horizons, we often volunteer and teach and then hang out in large groups at local restaurant bars. I also love group sports leagues. (:
 
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#10
Church is what I was thinking of originally.
 
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#13
Priceless.
 

washti

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#14
What is the most awful thrait in intp? How your circle of friends treat your husband? Do you have to explain him sometimes to people? If yes could you give example situations? Do you know some intp females? How you perceive them? Honestly
Sorry if it is to many I'm kind of courius how feeling sensors see intps ;-)
 

Crystabelle

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#15
What is the most awful thrait in intp? How your circle of friends treat your husband? Do you have to explain him sometimes to people? If yes could you give example situations? Do you know some intp females? How you perceive them? Honestly
Sorry if it is to many I'm kind of courius how feeling sensors see intps ;-)
What is the most awful thrait in intp?
If I had to choose one I'd probably say the lack of communication -- especially related to intent, motives, and feelings behind actions. I think I can deal with almost anything if I can understand where it's coming from. Unfortunately (admittedly), I often need more than a one-liner to really "get it" and this seems to exasperate INTPs.

How your circle of friends treat your husband?
My circle of friends treat my husband with respect. They all like him and admire him. They know he's quirky and give him the benefit of the doubt.

Do you have to explain him sometimes to people? If yes could you give example situations?
Yes! If he's meeting one of my friends, I have a ?bad/good? habit of "prepping" them beforehand because I'm afraid they're going to think he's rude or uninterested. I usually tell them he's very introverted and quirky but really nice and super smart.

Do you know some intp females? How you perceive them? Honestly
I for sure know a female INTJ and a woman I would guess is INTP but not certain. With both women, I see traits in them I admire and wish I had. However, we just don't "click." Are they judging me? Do they not like me? Did I say something stupid? --> All thoughts that go through my head when with most NT types. I become very self-conscious around them.

To my heart, they seem cold, stuck up, judgmental but my head realizes this isn't actually the case. And in reality, I've learned that I'm often way more judgmental than they are.

Sorry if it is to many I'm kind of curious how feeling sensors see intps ;-)
Not at all! Several people on this forum have answered my many questions. Most people have been very helpful. I hope I'm returning the favor.
 
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#16
You have a positive attitude, I will give you that.
 

Crystabelle

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#18
Why not get a divorce? You sound pretty miserable and I doubt he's happy either.
Why not get a divorce? Several reasons.

I thought I could fix us, fix me enough to make him want to be with me and invest in me again. I thought his need for autonomy was the main culprit and if I could just convince him life together was good then it could work. I have been extremely miserable and incredibly hurt. And still, I respect him on so many levels. I believe it would take a lot of effort but we could be amazing for each other and have a lot of fun times. We both enjoy singing and musicals and travel and agree on most money issues and child rearing. We have the same basic religious beliefs. He helps me grow and be a better person. He's honest.

He told me something recently -- that I'm the cruelest person to him and that THAT'S the reason he doesn't want to be with me -- not necessarily because of his desire for independence. For years, I have been mostly blaming our personality differences (mostly his personality) for the wedge between us.

I imagine he's told me something like this over the past 7 bad years of our marriage. For some reason, he either only now stated it extremely clearly so I could hear it or I only now was able to take a step back and look at that statement clearly.

I have come to the place where I finally see that he isn't crazy nor a liar. I also think I'm not crazy nor a liar. However, if he is now plainly and dogmatically stating that my cruelty to him is the main cause of all of our issues then either he is right and telling the truth or he IS crazy and a liar. You see my dilemma. I've actually been in a state of cognitive dissonance since he told me. I can't reconcile this information. I'm rethinking everything I thought I knew. Maybe I AM the main cause. Maybe I HAVE been extremely hurtful. Maybe the fact that I've caused him this pain yet he WON'T divorce me and still pays for everything is an example of the love he has for me that I've been accusing him of not having for years now.

I feel like I don't know anything any more. Hence... what led me to this forum. But after reading on here, I'm not sure there is hope for us even if I weren't the cruelest person. Seems like almost all INTPs just don't really like ESFJs anyway.
 

Reluctantly

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#19
Yeah, it doesn't sound good. I don't know your details and I shouldn't be giving my opinion on him or you.

But the problem I've had with esfjs is that they can be smothering and have all these implicit expectations that their partner may not have agreed to fulfill. Maybe that's what's meant by cruel?

Really it doesn't matter though. You both just sound incompatible. It happens. You both sound hurt by what the other wants. Is the relationship worth it, if you both have to compromise a part of yourself to recomcile that and get along? Honest question. It's extremely hard when what you both want hurts the other person. No one's fault; just not very compatible. Like trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

Disclaimer: Just an armchair analysis. I may be completely wrong.
 

Crystabelle

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#20
Yeah, it doesn't sound good. I don't know your details and I shouldn't be giving my opinion on him or you.

But the problem I've had with esfjs is that they can be smothering and have all these implicit expectations that their partner may not have agreed to fulfill. Maybe that's what's meant by cruel?

Really it doesn't matter though. You both just sound incompatible. It happens. You both sound hurt by what the other wants. Is the relationship worth it, if you both have to compromise a part of yourself to recomcile that and get along? Honest question. It's extremely hard when what you both want hurts the other person. No one's fault; just not very compatible. Like trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

Disclaimer: Just an armchair analysis. I may be completely wrong.
I actually really appreciate the input. I can tell you're being honest and not unkind. I really don't know the answer. I still want to have hope. I still want to believe compromising is possible and would even cause us both to become more balanced. But... I am losing hope. Like I said... I feel like I don't know anything anymore. My beliefs have all been turned upside down.

Again, appreciate the constructive feedback. Maybe it'll help me figure out what I'm supposed to do.

Any suggestion on how I might even approach him on this? I really don't want to give up. But I also really need to face the facts if I can find out what they are.

Should I just ask him questions and listen (but... his response is almost always "I don't know" which isn't very helpful)?

Should I write to him & tell him I see that I might be the one mostly to blame and I believe him but where do we go from here?

Do I tell him the above and ask him to go to counseling? Perhaps not necessarily for reconciliation but to help us/me figure out how to move forward whatever that direction is?

I know nobody can tell me what to do with my life and especially not knowing the details of the situation but I would still benefit from the input. I'll take it all with a grain of salt but I'll try to be more openminded than I have been in the past.
 

Reluctantly

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#21
Hah, this is what I mean by incompatible. You want to know what to do, because to you something should be done (you see a problem and seek a solution). To him, his "I don't know" means he wants to let things naturally mend, like an implicit give and take where either person can engage and disengage, depending on the circumstances.

In other words, his natural intp approach is to be indirect and let things happen naturally, while yours is to intervene and set conditions for mending things. You both want different things, you know?

Course, again I could be making a lot of assumptions here in assuming he is like me and whatnot.
 

Crystabelle

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#22
Hah, this is what I mean by incompatible. You want to know what to do, because to you something should be done (you see a problem and seek a solution). To him, his "I don't know" means he wants to let things naturally mend, like an implicit give and take where either person can engage and disengage, depending on the circumstances.

In other words, his natural intp approach is to be indirect and let things happen naturally, while yours is to intervene and set conditions for mending things. You both want different things, you know?

Course, again I could be making a lot of assumptions here in assuming he is like me and whatnot.
No... that sounds pretty much exactly like something he would say. Which... actually gives me a ton to think about. You're right -- I absolutely did not look at it your/his way at all. Not even a little bit. Thank you.
 

Crystabelle

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#23
Hah, this is what I mean by incompatible. You want to know what to do, because to you something should be done (you see a problem and seek a solution). To him, his "I don't know" means he wants to let things naturally mend, like an implicit give and take where either person can engage and disengage, depending on the circumstances.

In other words, his natural intp approach is to be indirect and let things happen naturally, while yours is to intervene and set conditions for mending things. You both want different things, you know?

Course, again I could be making a lot of assumptions here in assuming he is like me and whatnot.
P.S. You seem very insightful into the ESFJ type (and I'm guessing other types). And you have a way of talking to an ESFJ without making them feel like an idiot and that you hate them. Ever think of becoming a counselor? I know everything says an INTP really shouldn't but you seem to have a special knack at it.
 

Grayman

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#24
I am married to an ESFJ.

She is the cruelest person but also the nicest person. When someone does something that she believes to be "WRONG" she can be very scary and makes me want to hide but she is also the first to offer concern or help. ...although her help and concern isn't done in an entirely altruistic way. She pushes others to help and sets herself up as the leader of the movement and when listening to others concerns she can redirect conversations to being about her. Still, she is much better at making people feel better than I am and I am thankful to have her around to handle such things.
Overall I love how she is with children and it is there that I find the greatest respect for her.

I don't feel need to express my feelings to her. I expect her to know me enough to know how I feel and expressing it seems a waste of time and just creates more stress without resolving any real issues. Discussion essentially makes me relive unpleasant moments and I would rather look forward to new things and better things or even just distracting myself with interesting things.

She needs to express her feelings and discuss issues without any intent to resolve those issues because the simple act of discussing them makes her feel better. I am not entirely sure why. It only makes me feel like crap after she dumps on me and I have to go 'introvert' afterward to recover.

We had many issue in the past. We saw a counselor and it was very helpful in closing that gap in communication and get tools for resolving a lot of issues.
 

redbaron

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#25
P.S. You seem very insightful into the ESFJ type (and I'm guessing other types). And you have a way of talking to an ESFJ without making them feel like an idiot and that you hate them. Ever think of becoming a counselor? I know everything says an INTP really shouldn't but you seem to have a special knack at it.
Other people having qualities that you don't doesn't mean they need to turn that quality into some kind of structured commitment.

While I'm sure Reluctantly doesn't really care much, this kind of statement above is exactly the kind of thing that if repeated, encapsulates probably the most infuriating/impossible-for-an-introvert-to-deal-with aspect of EXXJ's that makes IXXP's not want to be around them.
 

Crystabelle

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#26
Other people having qualities that you don't doesn't mean they need to turn that quality into some kind of structured commitment.
You thought I was implying that he needed to? If I notice a talent in somebody, I like to point it out. Some people might just call that a complement. ;)

I have to confess... I'm missing something here. This seems to have upset you. Can you elaborate? Or can somebody else translate? Man... I'm glad I came to this forum b/c my intention is to learn. At the same time, thinking I might need to find some armor.
 

Grayman

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#27
I have to confess... I'm missing something here. This seems to have upset you. Can you elaborate? Or can somebody else translate? Man... I'm glad I came to this forum b/c my intention is to learn. At the same time, thinking I might need to find some armor.
Redboran always seems upset.
 

Crystabelle

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#28
I am married to an ESFJ.

She is the cruelest person but also the nicest person. When someone does something that she believes to be "WRONG" she can be very scary and makes me want to hide but she is also the first to offer concern or help. ...although her help and concern isn't done in an entirely altruistic way. She pushes others to help and sets herself up as the leader of the movement and when listening to others concerns she can redirect conversations to being about her. Still, she is much better at making people feel better than I am and I am thankful to have her around to handle such things.
Overall I love how she is with children and it is there that I find the greatest respect for her.

I don't feel need to express my feelings to her. I expect her to know me enough to know how I feel and expressing it seems a waste of time and just creates more stress without resolving any real issues. Discussion essentially makes me relive unpleasant moments and I would rather look forward to new things and better things or even just distracting myself with interesting things.

She needs to express her feelings and discuss issues without any intent to resolve those issues because the simple act of discussing them makes her feel better. I am not entirely sure why. It only makes me feel like crap after she dumps on me and I have to go 'introvert' afterward to recover.

We had many issue in the past. We saw a counselor and it was very helpful in closing that gap in communication and get tools for resolving a lot of issues.
Grayman,

I'd appreciate some more input from you. For instance, why do you stay married? How do you make it work with an ESFJ. Do you think she gives you the space you need?

I'm probably grasping at straws but if you can make it work, can't other INTP/ESFJ combos?

Also, if you don't want to get into this on this public thread, I understand.
 

redbaron

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#29
You thought I was implying that he needed to? If I notice a talent in somebody, I like to point it out. Some people might just call that a complement. ;)

I have to confess... I'm missing something here. This seems to have upset you. Can you elaborate? Or can somebody else translate? Man... I'm glad I came to this forum b/c my intention is to learn. At the same time, thinking I might need to find some armor.
I think you should probably go to couples therapy or something rather than have people guess at the emotional/mental state of your partner on the internet.

I'm not upset, just making a simple observation about what I perceive is probably a pattern in your behaviour. Like just imagine that maybe there's some people in the world who don't want other people to make a 'thing' about their 'talents' and prefer to just exist in a fluid and unassuming state - and 'noticing and pointing out' their talents can actually be really grating/irritating for them?

I'm not saying that's how Reluctantly is or even that this one instance of it would irritate her (I doubt it) but I can only imagine what it would be like to live with someone who actually made a point of doing so and I'm pretty sure I'd want to [redacted].

Not trying to upset/scare you or anything, but this point I'm making is I think an important one in that the thing that's important when you compliment someone isn't about whether or not YOU want to complemint them, it's about whether or not THEY want to be. It's almost the epitome of annoying when people compliment me for the most mundane/basic things.

It's like if I really earnestly complimented you for being able to make a pipe cleaner stick figure, and acted like you should enter the pipe cleaner olympics to really solidify what skill you have in pipe-cleaner stick-figure making. It's actually kind of patronising/ridiculous.

Then again I'm pretty atypical and maybe other people enjoy it *shrug*

I'm probably the worst person to ask for or go to for advice if you actively identify as and are proud to be an ESFJ, just btw.
 

redbaron

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#31
But I also feel like saying that I think your commitment to trying to understand your husband is rare and not typical of what I've seen from people seeking relationship advice on this forum.

That's a compliment btw.

:^)

I also find it amazing that it only takes one person to spell compliment as complement before I automatically adopt this spelling myself before realising I'm wrong and having to edit all the complements back to compliments.

Anyhow I'll stop shitting up your thread. Good luck in your relationship goals.
 

Crystabelle

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#32
It's like if I really earnestly complimented you for being able to make a pipe cleaner stick figure, and acted like you should enter the pipe cleaner olympics to really solidify what skill you have in pipe-cleaner stick-figure making. It's actually kind of patronising/ridiculous.
Ok. Doesn't make total sense to me but that's probably not a surprise to anyone here. If I complement you, I really truly mean it and admire it. If I think it's impressive, is it fair for somebody else to tell me it isn't? I'll try to think on this and understand better. Is this a common INTP thing or a jaded INTP thing?

I'm probably the worst person to ask for or go to for advice if you actively identify as and are proud to be an ESFJ, just btw.
I'm an ESFJ (sometimes borderline ENFJ) but I wouldn't say I'm proud of it. Some things I like about myself. Many things I wish were different. I'll take the good, bad, and ugly feedback and hope I'm mature enough to analyze it all and become a more insightful person because of it. Hopefully. I certainly don't want to be hurtful or offensive to anyone. I appreciate your input.
 
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#33
Why not get a divorce? Several reasons.

I thought I could fix us, fix me enough to make him want to be with me and invest in me again. I thought his need for autonomy was the main culprit and if I could just convince him life together was good then it could work. I have been extremely miserable and incredibly hurt. And still, I respect him on so many levels. I believe it would take a lot of effort but we could be amazing for each other and have a lot of fun times. We both enjoy singing and musicals and travel and agree on most money issues and child rearing. We have the same basic religious beliefs. He helps me grow and be a better person. He's honest.

He told me something recently -- that I'm the cruelest person to him and that THAT'S the reason he doesn't want to be with me -- not necessarily because of his desire for independence. For years, I have been mostly blaming our personality differences (mostly his personality) for the wedge between us.

I imagine he's told me something like this over the past 7 bad years of our marriage. For some reason, he either only now stated it extremely clearly so I could hear it or I only now was able to take a step back and look at that statement clearly.

I have come to the place where I finally see that he isn't crazy nor a liar. I also think I'm not crazy nor a liar. However, if he is now plainly and dogmatically stating that my cruelty to him is the main cause of all of our issues then either he is right and telling the truth or he IS crazy and a liar. You see my dilemma. I've actually been in a state of cognitive dissonance since he told me. I can't reconcile this information. I'm rethinking everything I thought I knew. Maybe I AM the main cause. Maybe I HAVE been extremely hurtful. Maybe the fact that I've caused him this pain yet he WON'T divorce me and still pays for everything is an example of the love he has for me that I've been accusing him of not having for years now.

I feel like I don't know anything any more. Hence... what led me to this forum. But after reading on here, I'm not sure there is hope for us even if I weren't the cruelest person. Seems like almost all INTPs just don't really like ESFJs anyway.
Not going to lie, this sucks for you and I have empathy for you even tho you are a complete stranger and I know pretty much nothing about you.

But I'm not an INTP, not like it really matters???

In any case I think I found your predicament in the bold read. That is why he is staying with you.

At this point you have to ask yourself if staying with him because you made a commitment under the pretence that your religion is supposed to be the thing that will never falter is something that you upkeep no matter how miserable it makes you, or you decide that maybe some people are incompatible regardless of what beliefs they actually have in common.

I suggest talking to Jenny.
 
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#34
Why not get a divorce? You sound pretty miserable and I doubt he's happy either.
Reluctantly Lock Town. I am never voting Reluctantly for the remainder of this thread.
 

redbaron

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#35
But I also feel like saying that I think your commitment to trying to understand your husband is rare and not typical of what I've seen from people seeking relationship advice on this forum.
Actually not really sure on this.

I mean I figured if he said you're the cruellest person and your response is to feel really bad about it and seek advice on how to understand then that's pretty decent. But then again if it's been 7 years and he feels that way maybe your relationship really shouldn't go on any longer.

Maybe he feels incapable of ending it because he knows it'll be horrible, hurtful and maybe even end up worse for him (or both of you, if he cares).

Dunno really, I kind of just find myself thinking you've both made shit decisions for letting this go on for so long and that you were probably both evidently wrong for each other years ago. Maybe it's repairable but I figure that both of your behaviours and attitudes would need to significantly change so that you could find a happy middle-ground, so the first things I'd be wondering are:

1. how willing are you to make big changes to your own behaviour?
2. how willing is he?
 

redbaron

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#36
Tbh I just read the OP and skimmed the rest of the posts but the more detail I read the more things I see that probably...don't help, to put it nicely.

Crystabelle said:
Yes! If he's meeting one of my friends, I have a ?bad/good? habit of "prepping" them beforehand because I'm afraid they're going to think he's rude or uninterested. I usually tell them he's very introverted and quirky but really nice and super smart.
Stop doing this.

Crystabelle said:
I think we are so attracted to INTPs (and introverts) because it's in our DNA and feeds us to connect on an emotional level. INTPs seem so extremely closed off in this area. If they give us a sliver of themselves it's incredibly rewarding to us. Makes us feel like we've accomplished an insurmountable task and makes us feel special to "go where no man has gone before "
It's not special. INTP's are pretty open to the right kind of people. It's just hard for you to go there because you're not the right kind of people.

Also I'm pretty sure if someone stated this as a reason they're attracted to me, I might start thinking or even suggesting various ways for them to spontaneously combust.

~

Anyway I don't really know enough details and I guess I'll have to take your word that the two of you agree on stuff but it seems to me that you view him as more of an 'interesting thing' than as an actual human. Like, "wow it's so quirky and different it's just FASCINATING!!!" which is pretty shitty and high up on the list of "bad reasons to enter into a serious relationship".

I could be interpreting you wrong but I doubt it because that vibe seems to seep into every post you make when you're describing his personality?

In any case I think that trying to disentangle 7+ years of a Serious Relationship™ is beyond my power to achieve over an internet forum. I'm also sure he's been selfish and a stupid piece of poo at particular points.

But I think the thing about it all is that you both look like you're just doing what you naturally prefer to do, and inadvertently making each other feel like shit. Which is why I asked the two questions in the previous post. For the relationship to work you'll probably both have to learn to be/do things that are unnatural to the both of you.

If that sounds like it's not worth it or won't work then probably just end it now before you both end up even more damaged. In my experience it rarely ends up as a successful relationship when two people to force themselves to be unnatural for the sake of the other. The best case scenario is that they 'stay together' but just live completely separate lives, albeit in close physical proximity to one another but it's really not a happy, mutual relationship.
 
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#37
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#38
Tbh I just read the OP and skimmed the rest of the posts but the more detail I read the more things I see that probably...don't help, to put it nicely.
No, I actually disagree with you here. INTPs solve problems. They are not sympathetic, but they find the logical answer.

OP came here because they know that about INTPs.
 
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#39
1. how willing are you to make big changes to your own behaviour?
2. how willing is he?
I agree 100% with you on this one tho. This is absolutely fundamental to understanding if this relationship has any chance at all.

If they are committed to each other, then it will be fairly obvious that the relationship CAN work, with effort ofc.

FWIW OP, I come from a christian family whose parents have been happily married for almost 33 years so I think I might know the kind of dynamic you might have with you faith and how important it is for you to feel like you need to stay with your husband. The difference is that my mom is ENFJ and my Father is ESFJ, and both of those types are NOTHING like INTPs.
 

redbaron

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#40
Tbh I haven't even gotten to the part where I say that I think making changes which go against your natural inclinations is almost impossible to keep up in the long-term. I think that strategy is useful only for figuring out stuff while you band-aid the problems by forcibly altering your behaviour, and ideally come to a proper understanding of one another in the meantime so that when you revert you can revert in ways that are less destructive to the other person.

I don't know if either of the people in this relationship are capable of such a thing? I also think it's worth trying to assess whether the person is worth band-aiding your behaviour for. Some people are just not going to ever be properly compatible and it's literally wasting both people's time to try and fix it.
 

redbaron

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#41
No, I actually disagree with you here. INTPs solve problems. They are not sympathetic, but they find the logical answer.

OP came here because they know that about INTPs.
Not sure what you're talking about but it seems very much unrelated to the thing that I'm saying in the quote? I'm saying that I see multiple things this person does that I don't think are helping at all. Especially 'prepping' her friends for meeting her husband. Maddening really.
 

Crystabelle

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#42
Anyway I don't really know enough details and I guess I'll have to take your word that the two of you agree on stuff but it seems to me that you view him as more of an 'interesting thing' than as an actual human. Like, "wow it's so quirky and different it's just FASCINATING!!!" which is pretty shitty and high up on the list of "bad reasons to enter into a serious relationship".
I find him a fascinating human being. Not as a trite thing. But fascinating, yes. Is that still crappy?

FWIW OP, I come from a christian family whose parents have been happily married for almost 33 years so I think I might know the kind of dynamic you might have with you faith and how important it is for you to feel like you need to stay with your husband. The difference is that my mom is ENFJ and my Father is ESFJ, and both of those types are NOTHING like INTPs.
Yes, QuickTwist. I think you get it.

Thanks everyone for input. It's difficult to hear some of this but I need to take it all in and think things through. I appreciate everything you have to say. Ultimately, I guess it's up to my husband and I to discuss and come to some sort of conclusion. Or... continue on this path of no decision... forever.
 

redbaron

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#43
Crystabelle said:
I find him a fascinating human being. Not as a trite thing. But fascinating, yes. Is that still crappy?
From the way you describe it, I think it might be. The reasons you say he's fascinating just don't really look like they're born out of some kind of mutual respect/understanding but more as like a novelty factor the way someone sees a magician or something and goes, "wow!".
 

Crystabelle

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#44
From the way you describe it, I think it might be. The reasons you say he's fascinating just don't really look like they're born out of some kind of mutual respect/understanding but more as like a novelty factor the way someone sees a magician or something and goes, "wow!".
Well, poop. I actually think I understand where you're coming from. And it's possible you're correct on your assessment. And although this admiration doesn't seem novel to me I have to consider that it is to others and possibly downright is in general.

IDK. This is what I'm saying that is so difficult. I believe my husband (and probably you guys) are honest and logical. If you say it, I need to give it credence whether I feel or see it. But the more I do, the more it just seems like ESFJs are pretty crappy people. I believe I'm kind, fun, honest and reliable -- a pretty good human being. But how can I be a crappy human (INTP view) and good human at the same time? Where is truth & where is perspective? (Rhetorical. Unless you feel like you really have the answer.)

As far as our willingness to compromise & try, I think I'm more willing than he is but, oddly, less capable. If that makes sense. Only time & a discussion will tell.
 

redbaron

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#46
Everything is relative. You're good for some people and not so good for others. I don't think you and I would ever have a very successful romantic relationship but that doesn't mean that you or I can't find other people and have successful romantic relationships.

I don't really intend to make you feel shitty or anything but it just strikes me how a lot of the things you say seem to me like the exact sort of red flags that I've seen in other people before.

Fwiw: I'm pretty certain that you ARE a fun, honest and reliable person with the right other people. But some people have different ideas about fun, honesty and reliability - which is where the disconnect happens.

Also it's one of the first times I've seen someone in a relationship thread like this actually takes on feedback and says, "well shit, I need to think about that". So...I find it hard to see you as being intentionally cruel to people or whatever, and it seems as though it's more like a side-effect of two different personalities clashing?
 

Serac

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#47
It seems obvious to me why ESFJs and INTPs end up together. The ESFJ just likes the challenge of breaking into the INTP emotionally, and the INTP just enjoys the emotional validation (something in very short supply for INTPs).

So when that part is over, it all goes to shit because there is nothing to there to sustain the relationship in the long run. It's like a hit of cocaine – a short-lasting thrill.

So there's a solution – ESFJs and INTPs can be together, but there needs to be a high turnover.
 

Serac

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#48
Here's a picture of carebears, because I know ESFJs like that kind of shit:

[bimgx=700]http://cdn32.sptndigital.com/sites/uk.tinypop/files/styles/image_1170x658/public/ct_series_f_primary_image/carebears_show_0.jpg?itok=hPeRON--[/bimgx]
 

Crystabelle

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#49
Love is sharing a life together. Sharing dreams, decision making, experiences. Waking up and going to bed together. Communicating every day. Never giving up on each other. Pretty much suffocating an INTP is love to me, I think. ???

Love is also putting someone else's needs before own. I think I'm loving an INTP when I give them space but then it drains me to do so.

What is love to you?
 

Grayman

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#50
It seems obvious to me why ESFJs and INTPs end up together. The ESFJ just likes the challenge of breaking into the INTP emotionally, and the INTP just enjoys the emotional validation (something in very short supply for INTPs).

So when that part is over, it all goes to shit because there is nothing to there to sustain the relationship in the long run. It's like a hit of cocaine – a short-lasting thrill.

So there's a solution – ESFJs and INTPs can be together, but there needs to be a high turnover.
Emotional validation.... what exactly do you mean by that?
 
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