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against the restrictive concept of intelligence

WALKYRIA

Active Member
Local time
Today, 02:24
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
492
#1
hi people I have one uncomfortable question to ask :
Why does intelligence smells irrelevant to me right now? Is it becoz I lack of it so deeply :facepalm: or just that i might be right?

I know this might stem from my nihilism... but i sense that people always want to be right, always want to fight for their egos and I used to be like that actually, argumentative.. me I MY, why ? I experienced one of the most radically changing(the most actually) experience in my life recently- you should try-; Basically i took all my shortcomings/weaknesses and lived according to them in order to grow... I forgot all my strengths. I chose all the difficult things to me in order to grow and to experience "the others experiences of life", I was lacking empathy so bad that in order to grow and to connect with humanity back... well I had to think like them, those who I saw like the populace. Deep inside I knew that I coulndt be that more intelligent, why would I be; I knew that the probability of me being the most intelligent was inferior to the one of me being biaised in my thoughts... After the experience, after feeling down, being depressed and other complicated things.. I realised for the first time I could potentially be in danger, I couldnt afford anything I wanted whenever I wanted, and I aknowledged something I couldnt back then; that The world as a whole could potentially be stronger, more intelligent than me.
It kinda feels good to take off of our shoulders the burden to accomplish big things, now I now that to live or survive is my sole need and purpose.

But, I sense I lost something that was important to me back then : The need to be always right. Corollary to that sadly, I don't value myself as more or less intelligent nor do I value the other through the subjective lens of intelligence anymore... I just found people who try to argue about their higher intelligence pathetic and insecure. On my way to spiritual growth, I found that intelligence wasnt the big deal really, and that felt really good to find out that It wanst necessary for me to always win arguments over people... That sometimes "weaker" people had the right to enjoy the feeling of "being right" too sometimes.

So here I am, a new man, more empathic, more gentle... lending a bit more towards INFP/INFJ but definitly still an INTP(or maybe not who knows!) and basically, I find all the concept of "intelligence" just plain bullshit and Irrelevant. I think it's a manipulation from society. I think it's the toxic nutrient to the needy ego/ souls of everyone(who doesn't want to be intelligent in this world? ), a nutrient that pushes us to be insecure, competitive and aggressive.


SO tell me INTP: how do you value intelligence knowing that as religion it's a blurry concept who can't be direcetly proven by any scientifical measure ? Is it as important as it used to be while younger in your inner system ? How did the transformation occur ?

PS: don't get me wrong, I'm not militating for dumbness here or implying that I'm unintelligent. Just that there is somthing bigger than intelligence to fight for... in the current state of our world, now !

Thanx :cat:
 

Hadoblado

think again losers
Local time
Today, 11:54
Joined
Mar 17, 2011
Messages
5,207
#2
In this day and age, where the value of an outcome is more dependent on decisions made than the goodness or willpower of those involved, intelligence is very important.

It is not everything, but out of any number of things that one could identify themselves by, intelligence is far from the worst choice.

There is no need to be insecure about your intelligence, nor is there a need to be more intelligent than the next person. I would argue, however, that humanity as a whole needs to raise the bar, as we are fucking a lot of things up. One way to raise that bar is to be the most intelligent and well-informed person you can be, to show others that there is something more than propagating ignorance.

Also, your assertion that intelligence is not directly provable by science is correct, but proving things scientifically is rather difficult. There is a LOT of evidence for the existence of individual differences in cognitive capacities, 'intelligence' is what we call this difference. Intelligence as a construct is a LOT different to religious dogma.
 

Chad

Prolific Member
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Yesterday, 21:24
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
1,080
Location
Westbrook, Maine
#3
For me, the goal is not intelligence.

Intelligence is the key, Knowledge and truth are the doors I seek.

I am motivated by the same goals and drives that motives as everyone else. I don't "wish to" believe that my intelligence makes me better than anyone else.

However, Knowledge is Power and intelligence is the key to knowledge. Therefor I value my intelligence for the knowledge and power it beings me. For much the same reason a wealthy man values his stacks of cash.

In this respect I would say that intelligence doesn't make me better it just makes me feel better. Because like most people I strive to gain power in control in my own life it not others. Intelligence has allowed me a certain level of control, mostly of myself and my irrational urges.

So I conclude by saying that I actually understand your point, however as far as I am concerned I still value my own Intelligence.

Many here find that it makes them better then most people however the truth is they are drive by the same needs in drives as everyone else. They have just chosen a less taken sometimes harder path to reach there end goals. Intelligence alone doesn't make you better then anyone but it does make you stand out among the masses.
 

WALKYRIA

Active Member
Local time
Today, 02:24
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
492
#4
There is a LOT of evidence for the existence of individual differences in cognitive capacities, 'intelligence' is what we call this difference
Okay, perhaps what differences are you talkin bout ? I have IQ scale and I have MBTI and theory of multiple intelligence... one differentiate intelligence far better and with more justice(MBTI) than the other one(IQ TEST) I find. One implies falsely superiority of intellect(while we know that certain High IQ lack common sense), the other one implies cognitive differences without any value judgement. And again OKay, I admit there are differences in abilities between human and apes; and differences between pathologically retarded or kids and normal humans but besides that... what are those clear differences of capacities you are infering ?

Actually, to be clear, the situation i'm talking about in the OP, I'm sure is familiar to you INTPS... I'm talking about me being strongly Ti user locked up in a strong Te users(**TJ's) world( medecine as I already said before). Where people assume I'm just a plain idiot lol, And I could almost believe it...
I might be wrong, but I have the feeling that The world/society is strongly (biaised towards) Te- thus factual and detail oriented - , and thus people often ignore our type of intelligence(more philosophers and holistic thinkers !) because they just don't understand it.


Many here find that it makes them better then most people however the truth is they are drive by the same needs in drives as everyone else. They have just chosen a less taken sometimes harder path to reach there end goals. Intelligence alone doesn't make you better then anyone but it does make you stand out among the masses.
Here in France, we say that "there is no such thing as love, there is only demonstrations of love ", I would say the same with intelligence... there is no such thing as intelligence, just demonstrations of it.
Thus, IN our society- a society of show offs- I believe that the one who shows the most is falsely believed to be the most intelligent... and it hurts some people.

Personnaly, I have rarely met people I valued highly intelligent .. Maybe because I'm swimming in a world full of them I don't know but they don't impress me at all. I see knowledgeable people(like full Te, factoids,..etc) all the time, yes, but does that mean they'r intelligent?
 

Hadoblado

think again losers
Local time
Today, 11:54
Joined
Mar 17, 2011
Messages
5,207
#5
Okay, perhaps what differences are you talkin bout ? I have IQ scale and I have MBTI and theory of multiple intelligence... one differentiate intelligence far better and with more justice(MBTI) than the other one(IQ TEST) I find. One implies falsely superiority of intellect(while we know that certain High IQ lack common sense), the other one implies cognitive differences without any value judgement. And again OKay, I admit there are differences in abilities between human and apes; and differences between pathologically retarded or kids and normal humans but besides that... what are those clear differences of capacities you are infering ?
IQ is one of the most misunderstood concepts in psychology.

IQ is a big deal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient

But it's far from the only facet of one's ability. It is also not an absolute. There are people with amazing cognitive ability with comparatively low IQs. But when you get down to the grit of things, a person with a substantially higher IQ will outperform someone with a low IQ in a lot of ways. Having a high IQ does not make your opinion always correct, but it will allow you to understand more complex arguments. It won't automatically give you a good job, but there are not many physicists or economists or CEOs with below average IQ.

People tend to not like being compared ordinally to other people, it deprives them of their self-esteem. People like to think they are special in some way, and in respect to IQ, they are likely wrong. By putting a number on a person's intellectual worth, you are giving them information that they do not want to hear.

Look at yourself for instance. You deny that IQ has much worth at all, even though it is predictive of all sorts of success in life. You then turn around and accept MBTI out of hand, despite it having next to no validity.

You claim that certain people with high IQ lack common sense. This is true. But they are not more likely to lack common sense than someone with a low IQ. In fact, I would speculate that people with high IQ have better common sense on average, but that there are exceptions to the trend.

There are many people who will pull IQ rank on you. These people are very intelligent, but they are letting their ignorance of how IQ works lend weight to their other ideas, which is not a particularly intelligent thing to do. IQ is not a free pass to be right regardless of evidence to the contrary. Intelligent people are still very biased, and still subject to human error.

Actually, to be clear, the situation i'm talking about in the OP, I'm sure is familiar to you INTPS... I'm talking about me being strongly Ti user locked up in a strong Te users(**TJ's) world( medecine as I already said before). Where people assume I'm just a plain idiot lol, And I could almost believe it...
I might be wrong, but I have the feeling that The world/society is strongly (biaised towards) Te- thus factual and detail oriented - , and thus people often ignore our type of intelligence(more philosophers and holistic thinkers !) because they just don't understand it.
There is room for Ti, you just need to find the niche.
 
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