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advice for young INTPs

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Today, 06:01
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
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5
Location
USA
#1
Just in general. What are some things you struggled with as a child (or, hey, maybe you still do struggle with them) and how could you have prevented them?
 

baccheion

Active Member
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215
#2
The best advice for young INTPs is 1-2mg selegiline sublingually, as it increases motivation: https://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=26632. Adding 5-10mg memantine should slow/prevent any tolerance.

Also, the sooner they realize freelancing/entrepreneurship is likely the only way to maintain sanity/happiness while still earning money, the sooner they can start preparing. The sooner they start gaining perspective, the less likely they'll fail.

School was a waste of time, happiness doesn't come from being around others (until the internet, so maybe that's not such an issue these days), don't get involved with ISFJs (they are a trap that can drag on for years and gnaw away at who you are) or other guardians, live alone, nootropics (N-acetyl semax amidate, P21, etc), brainwave entrainment, steam/vapor cleaner with good PSI, etc.

Silicon (from monomethylsilanetriol or maybe bamboo extract) prevents/reduces wrinkles, weak bones and teeth, poor collagen formation, etc. 30-50mg absorbed from diet + supplements is preferred. Monomethylsilanetriol = 64% absorption and bamboo extract = probably 5%.
 
Local time
Today, 12:01
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Messages
73
#3
The best advice for young INTPs is 1-2mg selegiline sublingually, as it increases motivation: https://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=26632. Adding 5-10mg memantine should slow/prevent any tolerance.

Also, the sooner they realize freelancing/entrepreneurship is likely the only way to maintain sanity/happiness while still earning money, the sooner they can start preparing. The sooner they start gaining perspective, the less likely they'll fail.

School was a waste of time, happiness doesn't come from being around others (until the internet, so maybe that's not such an issue these days), don't get involved with ISFJs (they are a trap that can drag on for years and gnaw away at who you are) or other guardians, live alone, nootropics (N-acetyl semax amidate, P21, etc), brainwave entrainment, steam/vapor cleaner with good PSI, etc.

Silicon (from monomethylsilanetriol or maybe bamboo extract) prevents/reduces wrinkles, weak bones and teeth, poor collagen formation, etc. 30-50mg absorbed from diet + supplements is preferred. Monomethylsilanetriol = 64% absorption and bamboo extract = probably 5%.
I'm sorry but I'm going have to disagree with you on that one real fast. Opening a business is a very risky move. It is not a guarantee for success and it can be an enormous money sink in the first few years. In fact, the main reason why most small businesses fail is because of a lack of capital.

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/Business-Survival.pdf

According to the above, about 50% of businesses fail by the fifth year, and a minority last past 10 years or so. This might be optimistic or pessimistic depending on your view point, but from many people I know who started businesses, it can take at least a few years to start generating positive cash flow depending on the industry. There can be a lot of lost opportunity gains in that time period, time spent doing other things. (Also where would you get the money for your business?)

Also I don't know where people get the perception that having your own business would be in any way less stressful than a regular job. Owning your own business is fucking tough. Every decision weighs on you, you constantly think about the business, etc. etc. It's also a fallacy to state that the owner of the business has no boss: the customers and your competitors are your boss. Most of the time it necessitates much more social interaction with people than at a job, whereas at a job you can just put in your 8 to 5 and fuck off. Social skills are extremely important for opening your own business more so than other jobs. If you are a social butterfly, I say go for it. But this is the INTP forum...

If anything, school is where INTPs are most likely to excel. You have an analytical and concept driven brain, for fuck's sake, use it. Physics, computer science, engineering, mathematics, these are all very abstract and conceptual fields that are extremely high in demand. They aren't glorious, but they need less social skills than other fields for one to do well (except for engineering) and you don't have to kill yourself worrying about your business 24/7. Nor do you have to beg and grovel for sponsorship, funding, or acquiring a customer base.

I don't know about freelancing, I'll do some research on it. But if you are doing freelancing it will be very difficult to break into an industry of your choice if you do it for too long. It's much easier for a someone with a career to switch to free lancing than for a free lancer to break into a career. And trust me, connections from your career would make it much easier for you to freelance...
Of course, free lancers here are free to disagree, as I admit I only have a few anecdotes to support this.
 

TAC

Inspectorist
Local time
Today, 12:01
Joined
Sep 20, 2016
Messages
130
Location
Houston, TX
#4
Having your own business and the stress that comes with it seems way more valuable to me than adopting someone else's stress as an employee. As an employee, I could give two shits about my company's problems, yet I still have to help solve those problems and deal with the related stress.
Working for somebody else to profit 10-15X what you earn in salary blows. You are required to care just as much as the upper management (if not more), just to keep getting that weekly check. Yeah, you have less on the line, the most you can lose is your job. But as an employee your business is your job. If you lose it, you gotta start a new business either in the same industry, or a brand new one.
 
Local time
Today, 12:01
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Messages
73
#5
Having your own business and the stress that comes with it seems way more valuable to me than adopting someone else's stress as an employee. As an employee, I could give two shits about my company's problems, yet I still have to help solve those problems and deal with the related stress.
Working for somebody else to profit 10-15X what you earn in salary blows. You are required to care just as much as the upper management (if not more), just to keep getting that weekly check. Yeah, you have less on the line, the most you can lose is your job. But as an employee your business is your job. If you lose it, you gotta start a new business either in the same industry, or a brand new one.
This is why I suggested for him to major in the fields I mentioned. In high demand fields, if you prove yourself to be a valuable asset, you can choose to walk away from any job you don't like and secure employment elsewhere easily. The whole issue of having to "care just as much as the upper management" can be mitigated by simply saying, "this isn't my job". And if they still require you to do things you don't want, you can simply walk away and find a better job.
Also it's true that they may profit 10-15x more than what you bring, but you also don't lose anything. There's a misconception that businesses are always earning money but that simply is not true. A business may earn 10-15x more one year, but lose 15x - 20x the next year. As an employee, you are immune from that, and again, you can simply change jobs.

Engineering is an especially lucrative field for that reason (INTPs seem to hate it...why I wonder?). Most engineers I know are treated with extremely high respect and are mostly untouched by upper management because of how valuable they are*. They have almost full autonomy and if they don't like the job? They can leave. They can do this precisely because they know they are valuable and are in high demand. In fact, I personally spend half my time at my job on reddit, yet no one knows and I still bring home a hefty pay check. I'm in Oregon though, so it may be different in different states. And I have no fear for my job because even now I get contacted by recruiters every month or so. Since I graduated from college, my stress levels are at an all time low, and life is really good.

Again, it's all about the industry and the opportunities...the more valuable you are, the more power you have, and the less likely companies will take act frivolously with you. And in math heavy fields, the more experience you gain, the more valuable you are, meaning that it scales well for the rest of your life. Now businesses, that is really risky. Entire industries and markets can collapse or rise just like that. Especially with the advent of artificial intelligence, entire industries can be wiped out in an instance. I'd say if you guys are really intent on opening up a business, make sure you really know what you are doing before you dive in.

*if you majored in ME, CompE, EE or CS. Civil is also good, but not as in demand as the other ones in the west coast. If you did bioengineering, chemical, aero, industrial, or any other one...you might be fucked. Though chemical and aero are doing better nowadays I think.
 

baccheion

Active Member
Local time
Today, 07:01
Joined
May 2, 2016
Messages
215
#6
I'm sorry but I'm going have to disagree with you on that one real fast. Opening a business is a very risky move. It is not a guarantee for success and it can be an enormous money sink in the first few years. In fact, the main reason why most small businesses fail is because of a lack of capital.

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/Business-Survival.pdf

According to the above, about 50% of businesses fail by the fifth year, and a minority last past 10 years or so. This might be optimistic or pessimistic depending on your view point, but from many people I know who started businesses, it can take at least a few years to start generating positive cash flow depending on the industry. There can be a lot of lost opportunity gains in that time period, time spent doing other things. (Also where would you get the money for your business?)

Also I don't know where people get the perception that having your own business would be in any way less stressful than a regular job. Owning your own business is fucking tough. Every decision weighs on you, you constantly think about the business, etc. etc. It's also a fallacy to state that the owner of the business has no boss: the customers and your competitors are your boss. Most of the time it necessitates much more social interaction with people than at a job, whereas at a job you can just put in your 8 to 5 and fuck off. Social skills are extremely important for opening your own business more so than other jobs. If you are a social butterfly, I say go for it. But this is the INTP forum...

If anything, school is where INTPs are most likely to excel. You have an analytical and concept driven brain, for fuck's sake, use it. Physics, computer science, engineering, mathematics, these are all very abstract and conceptual fields that are extremely high in demand. They aren't glorious, but they need less social skills than other fields for one to do well (except for engineering) and you don't have to kill yourself worrying about your business 24/7. Nor do you have to beg and grovel for sponsorship, funding, or acquiring a customer base.

I don't know about freelancing, I'll do some research on it. But if you are doing freelancing it will be very difficult to break into an industry of your choice if you do it for too long. It's much easier for a someone with a career to switch to free lancing than for a free lancer to break into a career. And trust me, connections from your career would make it much easier for you to freelance...
Of course, free lancers here are free to disagree, as I admit I only have a few anecdotes to support this.
Hence preparation. That is, the sooner it's clear where they'll likely want to be, the more time/buffer they have to ensure they won't fail. It could work out that they can't think of a viable idea, but at least they didn't blindly run into a 9-5.
 

Serac

Prolific Member
Local time
Today, 12:01
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
1,485
Location
Stockholm
#7
I'm sorry but I'm going have to disagree with you on that one real fast. Opening a business is a very risky move. It is not a guarantee for success and it can be an enormous money sink in the first few years. In fact, the main reason why most small businesses fail is because of a lack of capital.

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/Business-Survival.pdf

According to the above, about 50% of businesses fail by the fifth year, and a minority last past 10 years or so. This might be optimistic or pessimistic depending on your view point, but from many people I know who started businesses, it can take at least a few years to start generating positive cash flow depending on the industry. There can be a lot of lost opportunity gains in that time period, time spent doing other things. (Also where would you get the money for your business?)

Also I don't know where people get the perception that having your own business would be in any way less stressful than a regular job. Owning your own business is fucking tough. Every decision weighs on you, you constantly think about the business, etc. etc. It's also a fallacy to state that the owner of the business has no boss: the customers and your competitors are your boss. Most of the time it necessitates much more social interaction with people than at a job, whereas at a job you can just put in your 8 to 5 and fuck off. Social skills are extremely important for opening your own business more so than other jobs. If you are a social butterfly, I say go for it. But this is the INTP forum...

If anything, school is where INTPs are most likely to excel. You have an analytical and concept driven brain, for fuck's sake, use it. Physics, computer science, engineering, mathematics, these are all very abstract and conceptual fields that are extremely high in demand. They aren't glorious, but they need less social skills than other fields for one to do well (except for engineering) and you don't have to kill yourself worrying about your business 24/7. Nor do you have to beg and grovel for sponsorship, funding, or acquiring a customer base.

I don't know about freelancing, I'll do some research on it. But if you are doing freelancing it will be very difficult to break into an industry of your choice if you do it for too long. It's much easier for a someone with a career to switch to free lancing than for a free lancer to break into a career. And trust me, connections from your career would make it much easier for you to freelance...
Of course, free lancers here are free to disagree, as I admit I only have a few anecdotes to support this.
There are a lot of paths which are risky but which would be preferable to being a corporate slave. The whole attraction of a dayjob is that it is the safe recipe everyone follows – show up at some office everyday, collect monthly paychecks and keep doing that until you get ass cancer or become too useless. It is very "safe" in the sense that you can predict with almost 100% precision that you will die a slow, meaningless and painful death while being confined to a little cage and barely scraping by all along.

As it happens, btw, I've been working for 2 years now since getting my MSc in mathematics. I have avoided large corporations so I cannot even imagine how shit that is. I've been working in small- to medium sized companies (survived 4 weeks in the medium-sized one before I quit), but I am starting to realize that no matter where you work, you have to answer to idiots, perform stupid tasks, do only mildly interesting stuff for the most part, and you're bound to one city and one office where you have to show up on a daily basis, never really making decent money until you have worked for several decades, etc, etc. In other words, you're a fucking slave. I kinda did this regular-job thing to see what it is about, and I have to say – it hasn't surpassed the expectations. Ultimately, baccheion is fucking spot on in this thread (although I haven't tried his chemical stuff yet)
 

Jennywocky

guud languager
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Joined
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10,615
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Charn
#8
People have different levels of risk tolerance.

Some need to be in control of their work efforts and workday, others prefer less risk and are willing to accept the tradeoff of less control. Sometimes too there are constraints that impact one's ability to shoulder additional risk (like when you have children, health insurance, and other things hanging in the balance).

Basically, learn how to recognize signs that you're unhappy/frustrated with your occupation and what you need to do to feel productive and like you're not wasting your life since you just get one. Do a pro/con assessment -- what you gain for each option, and what you lose. But in the end you get to decide what is tolerable.

it's also not necessarily a one-time choice. Maybe for a period of time it'll make sense to choose stability over risk, and then once you get enough resources stored up and/or situations change, then get out there and take chances.

In my experience it is true that happiness only is gained by taking some degree of risk; I didn't take enough risk early in my adulthood and it detrimentally impacted my career direction and what I attempted. I also misjudged my energy levels over the long-term. I wish I had made some different choices after high school and shouldered some risk up front for potential greater rewards and opportunities later... What risks I could undertake in recent years in my career definitely paid off, but there are things I wish I had pursued in other fields and at this point it's mostly too late.

In my favor, I did well mixing computer/IT interests with writing and ended up eventually in systems analysis and make great money now (and typically am left alone because there's so many people); the thing is, I have other things in life that interest me more but they're hard to pursue part-time.
 
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