The Week in Economics

[Agent Intellect]

Here is a little timeline of what happened during the week.


For those that aren't from the US, its been kind of a crazy week in economics news. the above link gives a good idea of what happened. anyone have any thoughts on this? could the economy have been handled better? was this inevitable, or could something have been done to prevent this? is this sign of things to come? can it be fixed? how would you handle it if you were in charge? should we be bailing them out or let the market do as it may?

[Kuu]

Hmm they should let it just go, but that will never happen. But because of that, it will happen again... its inevitable...

[fullerene]

I'm more scared of the government's responses than the "crises" that spark it. I shouldn't say more though, because I really don't know what I'm talking about well enough.

[loveofreason]

Try googling "Money As Debt" for a very watchable animated film about how the money system really works.

The system is fatally flawed, but I guess as long as the US government keeps it on artificial life support then the world can keep on pretending a little longer.

[fullerene]

damnit LoR, I was sitting down to do physics homework, and I intended to listen to that in the background... but that delayed me almost a full hour.

I actually knew most of that in general already, but the specifics and mechanics of it were still really interesting. It clarified some details that make the whole system a lot more intricate than I thought it was (I thought the government did just print its own money when it needed it, rather than borrowing from banks). I think it would have been more effective if he didn't push so hard to blame bankers... I hate when people try to argue something that seems a little "off" when the situation would speak for itself if they just laid the facts out there. Either way that was a great video.

[Decaf]

Yeah, the first time I saw that video I was simultaneously very impressed with their ability to convey how the money system works and the problem inherent in it, and disappointed by their addition of a conspiracy theory. INTP?

[Agent Intellect]

Very interesting video.

Very interesting video.

makes me want to start my own country. anyone think this problem can be fixed before its too late? maybe i'm just a pessimist, but I don't think so.

[loveofreason]

Originally Posted by Decaf

Yeah, the first time I saw that video I was simultaneously very impressed with their ability to convey how the money system works and the problem inherent in it, and disappointed by their addition of a conspiracy theory. INTP?

I think the term 'conspiracy' suffers a lot of cultural baggage, but nothing in the film struck me as 'conspiracy theory'. Can you explain how you see it?

And Decaf's already doing the researching for forming one's own country: http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=762

I'd prefer to see the 'problem' succumb to it's inherent flaws. (The probable outcome for the current situation is that the old currency folds and a new one is issued, yet the system of finance remains. Drat.)

But we can ask ourselves: if not the system we have, then what?

Enormous fun for those of us who like designing possible worlds.

[fullerene]

take to farming, head out to unused land, and live and let live?

"conspiracy theory" because it blamed the banks and bank-owners almost entirely for our condition, as if they purposely set themselves up so that people had to pay them back an unpayable debt so that they could grow rich in other peoples' trust.

I think there's plenty of blame to go around, and I don't think it's all the bankers' fault. "Blaming the rich guy" comes off, in my opinion, as a childish attack born of jealousy. It may be completely justified, and he may be completely right... but I have a feeling the issue is not that simple. I'm gonna show this to one of my friends, cause I know a pretty smart kid who's studying econ. I know he knows the facts, about banks creating money out of nothing and "debt" not really being in debt to anyone, but I want to ask him about the parts the video glazed over, waving its hands and saying "there's no good reason for this!" Particularly the part about the government borrowing money from banks that it could print itself, and especially if there are any benefits of being attached to the World Bank.

I know he absolutely despises the fact that we're attached to it, so I don't know if he'll have any answers... but I don't trust videos to give a neutral view of the situation, and he's both my friend and ISTP--also Ti dominant--so I'll see if he can clarify the situation the next time I see him. My Ne is just telling me that video was about 80% dead on and 20% out of touch with reality.

[Agent Intellect]

once again, cryptonia, i agree with everything you said. i'd be interested in reading what this friend of yours has to say about it.

[Decaf]

Here

Here

's an interesting bit of nostalgia.

[fullerene]

wow... that was shameful how the news lady treated him during that.

on a side note (or... not really?) I haven't forgotten about the video or this thread, but I haven't gotten around to talking to my friend yet either. I'll see him this weekend, but it's his birthday, so a big party kind of thing... so I'm not sure if we'll have time to talk.

[Ermine]

Originally Posted by Agent Intellect

Here is a little timeline of what happened during the week.


For those that aren't from the US, its been kind of a crazy week in economics news. the above link gives a good idea of what happened. anyone have any thoughts on this? could the economy have been handled better? was this inevitable, or could something have been done to prevent this? is this sign of things to come? can it be fixed? how would you handle it if you were in charge? should we be bailing them out or let the market do as it may?

I certainly think the CEOs could have made better choices from the start. This didn't start overnight. It started with years and years of companies making bad choices and short sighted ideas to make lots of money fast.

As for the bail out failure, it's really the government's only choice if they stick with their current priorities of pleasing and keeping the people happy. Refer to the Truth in a Feel-Good Society thread. No matter what they do, they'll simply be throwing hundreds of billions of dollars bailing out companies that are going to keep doing worse. The only other option I can see is letting faulty businesses fail and insure the people instead of the banks. And the people can simply move on to the surviving banks.

[Jordan~]

If I'm to believe the news here, I'll be dead by the end of the week and a bank is about to collapse onto my house.

[ElectricWizard]

How's it got this far? I thought it was just sensationalism and it would end in a week or less!

[FusionKnight]

Originally Posted by Fernando_the_weasel

I certainly think the CEOs could have made better choices from the start. This didn't start overnight. It started with years and years of companies making bad choices and short sighted ideas to make lots of money fast.

There's nothing wrong with this, as long as bad choices are allowed to lead to their naturally bad consequences; i.e. the failure of the company. It's when government steps in to prevent the consequences that we get a massive positive feedback loop which encourages the destructive behavior in the first place.

It'd be like if your kid refused to eat his brussels sprouts at dinner, and was therefore hungry later in the evening. If you "cured" the problem by satiating his hunger with cookies, he's never likely to actually eat his brussels sprouts again.

[ElectricWizard]

Bad analogy. Cookies taste nice. Money tastes disgusting. Also, comparing people to the US government is just plain mean.

[Agent Intellect]

Originally Posted by Decaf

Here's an interesting bit of nostalgia.

Art Laffer or whoever sounded like kind of an idiot, although the Peter Schiff guy kinda made himself look a little stupid at the end, although i think time has proven most of what he's said to be correct so far.

[ElectricWizard]

I prefer this:

YouTube- Ker-plunk 1 of 2

YouTube- Ker-plunk 1 of 2

The second part of the video is better than the first, but they're continuous, so...