on-line/off-line [thread split]

[Linsejko]

I read about 3/4 the posts and then skipped the rest...

...I basically was at the point, several months ago, where I was keeping up with almost every single active thread. I was spending several hours a day here. That's when I knew I had to stop. I basically went cold turkey.

It is addicting, to the nay-sayers; it was, for me, an obsessive thing to read and answer it all. This forum has a lot of good to it, and can be of some benefit, but honestly I don't like the effect it has on me in large doses. My life philosophy is quite different from that which is celebrated here, and I find that this forum tends to darken my outlook on life--I have enough trouble fighting my own sources of depression. I don't need to have the idea that I am a misunderstood, outcast, superhuman segment of society quietly reinforced.

But really, (while I've only spoken of it's negative I hold that there is much good here), the biggest issue is that typing on this forum is not living life. It's a safe, artificial substitute for real life interaction. It's very comfortable for INTPs, in that way. But I have more important things to devote my time to.

Eudamonia... the issues, I think, are self-control and time management, things I do very poorly by nature and explicitly have been working a great deal on for the past several months. The lack of these has really put me far behind where I could be in life, and I'm devoted to getting them down... but until I do, I just have to cold-turkey some things and be over-legalistic, just to make myself function at all in an organized fashion. I don't know if it's an issue for you also, but something like 2 hours a day sounds like it might be wise if you can hold to that. I'd go for 2 hours online time at all, really, and actually have been thinking of enforcing that on myself recently also, but... to each their own. You know what's best, if you're being honest with yourself.

Good luck to all of us!

K

[loveofreason]

Aha. Thought provoking and insightful as always.

How are we, and the benefit we derive from your participation, any less real than the people you cross paths with in off-line life?

You could waltz through a crowd of hundreds and leave no more trace in their lives than the breeze across their skin. One could fall through the arms of a succession of lovers while leaving them essentially untrammeled and unknown. Yet you can put your most profound thoughts into words and direct them like arrows into the deepest levels of comprehension of dozens of others, simply by posting here.

I guess I hold meeting in a communion of minds the highest possible level of connection, and being on-line here makes that more, not less, possible. For me at least.

And yes. I am addicted.

I'm a peak-experience hunter. Aren't we all?

[Da Blob]

Originally Posted by loveofreason

Aha. Thought provoking and insightful as always.

How are we, and the benefit we derive from your participation, any less real than the people you cross paths with in off-line life?

You could waltz through a crowd of hundreds and leave no more trace in their lives than the breeze across their skin. One could fall through the arms of a succession of lovers while leaving them essentially untrammeled and unknown. Yet you can put your most profound thoughts into words and direct them like arrows into the deepest levels of comprehension of dozens of others, simply by posting here.

I guess I hold meeting in a communion of minds the highest possible level of connection, and being on-line here makes that more, not less, possible. For me at least.

And yes. I am addicted.

I'm a peak-experience hunter. Aren't we all?

I find this forum to be 'more' real rather than 'less' real
that is because I am being more 'real'
instead of a defensively- minded individual
in a 'real' social setting where I never show my 'real' face...

[Ogion]

True thoughts, lor and Da Blob. That's why i like this place as well.

Ogion

[Linsejko]

Perhaps this justifies a separate thread?

It isn't less real; artificial does not imply unreal, but instead contrived, and thus (in this case) lacking elements of "real world interaction". Arguing that it's "real" distracts the argument; hearts are still mended and broken online, to be sure, and wisdom is shared and gained, doubtless. But the internet serves as a portal which distorts and distances the communication. It's too 'safe'; there's something important about looking into someone's eyes and hearing their voice, and the risk and vulnerability that kind of interaction entails.

This level of safety allows for some interesting dynamics, to be sure, and certainly allows many otherwise guarded INTPs to be unusually expressive and "vulnerable" in one dimension (if you will)... but there's something being missed.

Friendships experienced in flesh and blood and far more fulfilling in their richness than friendships experienced through a digital filter--in spite of, (if not because of), the possible opposite and equal injury by that same experience. No... these friendships are real, but they deprive us all of the richness of human experience. Contrary to popular belief, it really isn't all in the mind.

This is peak experience, but one dimensional. Like enjoying the 'risk' of loss in a board game, perhaps. It simply isn't as epic as real life, and the feeling of 'risk' cannot compare to the real world equivalent.

L.

[Ogion]

True thoughts as well, Linsejko. Yea, i know, seems kinda conflicting. These are simply different media of communication, which own characteristics to each. Advantages as well as disadvantages.

But it certainly is a better thing to have this form of communication (online/computer-based) in addition to 'reallife' "body to body" communication, so to speak.

Ogion

[Fordy]

I'd say it's about finding a balance between offline and online communication. Yes, a forum like this may only be a 'safe, artificial substitute', but as you said, we as INTPs enjoy this; we think of things that offline friends may not be able to understand , or think of things that might just make others think we're crazy if we talked to them about it. Here, we can open up to people who will understand and discuss, and even if they don't, there is no risk, so it's a no-lose situation really.

In real life, the risk is greater and ever present, but the rewards are much more fulfilling indeed. I get far more enjoyment in the company of friends - or perhaps even friendly strangers - than anywhere online. Life is full of experiences to be had, that overall will help us lead richer lives, and help us deal more effectively with common situations thanks to the experience gained, and also just to enjoy life.

By living lives we gain experiences, which we can then share online if we wish; and thus the experience in some ways can be passed on to others. And in return, you get to learn of their experiences too; obviously not going to have as much of an impact on your life untill you live it yourself, but it pays to be prepared/cautioned for life experiences yet to come.



... I only read the first page of this topic and it seems to of taken quite a turn since then. :P
Ahh well.
*Raises an eyebrow at Eudamonia (referencing to the first page even though it may well be hideously out of date by now)*

[loveofreason]

Linsejko, why see it as contrived and lacking, when equally it could be understood as a technological grace opening up human potentiality, and an augmentation?

At some point surely writing and alphabets and emerging symbology, even spoken language itself and intellectualisation, could be seen as contrivances denying the full expression of our nature. What of the time before words and all the bodily expression that was lost or modified - to the point that some of us now are clueless as to how to read body language, or ignorant of how pheremones act upon our perceptions and actions...

are these losses justifications for not moving forward into an ever more rarefied realm of expression? Are they really lost?

I don't see them as absolute losses, just subject to shifts in awareness. The same way a sweeping beam of light illuminates an ever changing swathe... what is in darkness before and after the light doesn't cease to exist. It is merely in shadow.

The way I see it we are reaching forward and upward into our potential and moving into territory that begs expression simply because it is there. Because we imagine it can be.

By throwing our minds forward we illuminate the future, and right now we are wroughting a new level of connectedness and communication between humans.

I still wonder if being human isn't all in the mind, though I do grant the validity of what you say about the biological engagement and risk and consequent higher potential pay-off involved in off-line relationships, but on-line is not devoid of risk, nor biological processing, for all that sensory input is limited. Especially where Ti is involved, and the thought-emotion feedback loop gets going.

I prefer to see on-line interaction as adding a dimension to life rather than taking one away.

[NoID10ts]

Oh man! I wonder what would happen to me if I began bringing on-line NoID10ts into my off-line world.

[Wisp]

Crucifixion?

[NoID10ts]

But then you run the risk of a resurrected NoID10ts, and no one but NoID10ts wants that, right?