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Old 27th-June-2016, 01:37 PM   #301
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Default Re: Game of Thrones

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Originally Posted by Reluctantly View Post
Yeah, I know, they actually kept the camera steady so you can actually see what's happening, just awful.
Are you telling me you can't see what happens here:


?

With all due respect, that's bullshit. Steady camera can be used to good effect, but GoT doesn't let the visual content and composition speak within the frame like, say, Jodorowsky or Kubrick. There's just a lack of subtle flavorful movement to the lens eye, a lack of dynamic between characters and proxy beholder. Cherry Cola told me it's for budget constraints and i'm inclined to believe that. It's not pretty - and coincidentally your justification is nonsense.
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Old 28th-June-2016, 12:12 AM   #302
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Those glances between cersei and jamie... george loves jamie and he loves tyrion, neither is likely to die earlier than close to the end and eventhen probably not - so thats gotta be the rift he needs between the two lovers (in order to get jamie to join tyrion in order for him not to die) taking shape

Hope not, would prefer the siblings keep fucking and fuck everyone else up and win, team lannister all the way by now, also quyburn or whatever his name is=intp and awesome
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Old 28th-June-2016, 12:25 AM   #303
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This show just became such a cliché.
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Old 28th-June-2016, 12:57 AM   #304
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cheeseum
Spoiler:


Yeah, I didn't know the book, but they essentially set the Waif up like a villain who was out to get Arya and just really did not like her. Plus, she was told to "make it quick" and instead she gut stabbed her a few times to make her suffer. Not what I would expect from a Faceless One.

So I had been wondering if maybe Jaqen had set it up so that Arya would remove the Waif because she no longer followed the virtues of the Faceless cult. I had so many interpretations of that sequence as possible, and it ended up being the dumbest -- Arya does behave stupidly, she survives gut wounds that should have killed anyone, there's an amazing chase she shouldn't have been able to participate in, and then walks off at the end apparently still just fine without bleeding out. Wheee.


That's my hope too -- I really want there to be more to them than just "standard baddy."

But the show as it has moved away from GRRM's vision has increasingly disappointed me in that regard. The whole Dorne thing was terrible, and I don't feel like bitching about all the other disappointing plot points.

It's just the earlier intrigue of the show plus every so often some really great character scenes (like Jaime and Brienne recently, or Jaime and Edmure, etc etc etc) that are pretty cool, especially if you've followed the show and know subtext.

I think she basicaly walked away fine bc she drank from that well thingy but yea she was kinda supposed to die
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Old 28th-June-2016, 01:26 AM   #305
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Jaime looked scared af when he walked into the throne room tbh

You kno the show has bad writing when they end every fdhjd episode with dany and dragons scene for the wow factor to distract from shity writing.

Was sam crying in the library

Littlefinger sux hitting on women
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Old 28th-June-2016, 02:12 AM   #306
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Hope not, would prefer the siblings keep fucking and fuck everyone else up and win, team lannister all the way by now, also quyburn or whatever his name is=intp and awesome
Qyburn is essentially your kind, polite, easy-going Nazi scientist who is completely amoral and never means anything personally but otherwise has no personal ethics to limit what he's willing to attempt. ("You must know, Pycelle, I feel bad about this and never held any personal animosity towards you. That being said, can I have your corpse after all this is said and done? Because science?")
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Old 28th-June-2016, 02:14 AM   #307
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i tried to watch the first episode of last season and i couldn't focus, i am like hyperactive going from one website to the other, picking up the next cigarette and trying not to think to much
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Old 28th-June-2016, 03:03 AM   #308
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As purely a cosmetic, Cersei's costuming was pretty cool.
Yeah I thought so too.
And that was the one thing I liked about the episode. Well: it was nice seeing the Christians blow up, but also predictable.
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Old 28th-June-2016, 03:10 AM   #309
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Hado: had all the same questions, you weren't the only one.

As purely a cosmetic, Cersei's costuming was pretty cool.

Cersei's Prophecy

Spoiler:
Well, the kids are all taken care of -- "gold for their hair, gold for their shrouds."

The Valonqar is the most interesting part now -- the term means "little brother" -- as it went thusly: "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

For a long time, the assumption was that this would be Tyrion, with a contentious relationship and the blatant enmity between the two (and where Cersei almost managed to get Tyrion executed in Season 4).

Now, thematically, it's become more and more plausible that it could be her incestuous lover twin (who is slightly younger than her) Jaime, mainly because of how it's established from Episode 1 of "what Jaime is willing to do for love" rather flippantly, when he disables Bran by callously pushing him out a window to preserve the secret of the twins' incest, and you'd think this might get revisited / spun around in some way.

- Jaime is ethically noble on some level and willing to break a commitment when the lives of many are at stake -- such as breaking his vow as King's Guard to stop Aerys II from destroying King's Landing with wildfire. Brienne sees the noble aspect to his character, and you see him respond to that. It doesn't help that Cersei has just killed a large number of people using wildfire.

- Jaime's largest point of admiration for Cersei was how she (like Catelyn Stark) would do anything for her babies... but here Cersei has essentially sealed the doom of her last child -- also Jaime's child -- and without a tear climbs upon the throne to claim power. Essentially at this point, Cersei seems to have resigned herself to the inevitable and is now going for broke; there will be no reining her in, her children were her focus before but now they are all gone and she has nothing to live for.

- The look upon Jaime's face at her coronation is unreadable, aside from the "WTF have you done???" She might have in the short-term saved herself and rid the city of The Sparrow and his militants, but she has created a host of difficulties in the long run and essentially ruined the Lannisters in terms of the longevity of the House.

The main difficulty is that Jaime isn't wrapping one of his hands around anyone's throat -- it's made of metal -- but I suppose it depends on how literal the prophecy is.

But essentially you seem the twins moving in opposite directions now. Jaime is moving away from his dark and irresponsible reputation to act more nobly and to preserve life (which you saw flickers of potential for when he broke his vow to murder Aerys), and Cersei is moving away from machinations in the dark and the imposed constraints of protecting her children to simply wielding power with impunity.

How can love survive?



Spoiler:
yessss about the jaime/madking/cersei/wildfire thingy. what i can't wait to see is the jaime and cersei relationship more than anything.
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Old 28th-June-2016, 04:14 AM   #310
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Yeah it'll be Jaime's hand that does it foreshore. I had no idea about the prophecy specifying that she died by her brother's hand, but still the narrative pointed me towards Jaime being the one that does it. Now that there's a little bro prophecy, it would be a waste for Martin not to subvert the prophecy. Of course, his subversion of prophecy is a trope in itself... so he could swing the other way to keep us on our toes, but that seems a bit pointless.
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Old 28th-June-2016, 04:50 AM   #311
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Well apparently people liked my thought-by-thought analysis of last episode (or maybe you were being sarcastic in which case fuck you I'm doing it anyway) so here's my take on the finale here. Again, I'm not using SPOILERS, so read on at your own risk.

----------------------------------------------

Right off the bat this episode has a strikingly different tone. A lot of instrumentals and dialogue-free shots which I count to the show's credit, as most dialogue lately has been obvious and incredibly on the nose. This Loras trial was more or less as expected. I didn't expect him to actually pledge himself to the faith militant, though. In all honesty I thought he'd be executed or at least die in some other fashion (mostly because last we heard from him he was gravely wounded while retaking Dragonstone and has been sitting around off-screen for at least one full book or more. My only thought beyond that is that Loras was not wounded there and is actually somewhere else enacting schemes for the Tyrells, in which case his conversion now is still strange unless he and the Tyrell brood begin plotting something big next season.

I saw Pycelle's death coming, seeing as he has been killed in the books, but not in this way. His death (and Kevan's) kicks off what I expect to be Varys' reign of terror on King's Landing, not some Cersei "making way for the new" bullshit. Also how did Qyburn get those kids to commit murder for him? That's far outside the range of what Varys ever asked of those little birds. All Varys ever did was ask them to watch and tell him what they saw. Actual murder is a pretty big step up. He must have given them A LOT of candy.

Also where's this kid running off to? I mean, clearly this is where the wildfire is stored and they've done a great job all season of reminding us that the Mad King had it hidden under the city, but are they really going to begin the episode by blowing up the sept? Seems like an artless and brutal method of seizing power. Although Cersei's mind has definitely become that (I actually really dislike all of Cersei's scenes this season. Here in the show she's oddly composed and carefully plotting whereas she's losing her god damn mind in the books. Everywhere she looks she see's Tyrion smiling from the shadows. She has nightmares so bad that she's formed a small opium habit just so she can get to sleep and has ramped her drinking problem up to 11 when she's staying awake. She's obsessed with wildfire, going so far as to burn down the Tower of the Hand with it after Tywin dies. At every turn she's so frightened of enemies and plots that she's actually alienated everyone around her, including Jamie who'd actually soured on her in the books the first time he returned to King's Landing (he even got a letter from her to be her champion in the trial by combat but just threw it away and was like "nah")). Big ups (as the saying goes) to my girl Marg for figuring it out. She's not going to die is she? Damn, Cersei might take out practically the whole Tyrell line right now, seeing as Wyllis doesn't seem to exist in the show. Awwwwwww shit, motherfucker. Let's check out that body count:
Kevan's gone (again, supposed to be killed by Varys for doing too good a job at governing and allowing Cersei more room to fuck everything up).
Loras, Margaery, and Mace Tyrell. The Tyrell line is essentially crippled. To my knowledge, only Olenna remains and she's not gonna be popping out an heir any time soon.
Lancel. Eh who really gives a shit? He was nothing special in the books and even less special in the show.
The High Sparrow. This one's big too. He was a really bizarre and interesting character. I think the show writing for him was always a bit off the mark from where it should have been, but he was an interesting and mysterious character who I hope gets some more development and exploration in the book.

Tommen's not going to be happy.

Ooh, waterboarding the nun with wine! Although, if we're being real, Cersei's too much of an alcoholic to willingly waste that much wine. I don't really see what significance Cersei torturing her is really going to have, though. Also why are we still calling the mountain by his name? He was pronounced dead so that Dorne would be complacent with the justice they were served. This is Ser Robert Strong and he's totally not the mountain (although he may be constructed out of quite a few pieces of the mountain).

lolwat Tommen. That's not what I meant when I said you wouldn't be happy.

Why did the Lannister army go to the Twins? They're marching back to Casterly Rock with their political prisoners because the war is over. Ugh whatever fine, we need them to kill the Freys anyway. Why's Jaime so brood-y? Also why's Walder physically walking around? His joints are so fucked that people have to carry him literally everywhere. Go back and watch every scene he's in from season 1 onwards and I swear he's reverse aging. He's getting younger, healthier and more mobile every time he appears on screen.

Not what I would expect of Cersei regarding Tommen's death. Each successive death in her family has (or should have) made her more and more unhinged. For Tommen's suicide to actually be her fault should actually break her brain. She should be nuttier than the mad king ever was right now.

Okay Sam, while I do appreciate the view you've picked out for yourself, don't you think you should've rode the carriage all the way into town? Ooooh shit, are those white ravens flying out of the Citadel? It's Winter, motherfuckers! Let's get this shit started. Why is Sam doing this cutesy bullshit? Why is this maester doing this asshole bullshit? Why is Gilly here? I don't get what the point of this drama is when it should be straightforward. Why does Sam look so jumpy and scared walking into the library?

The white raven heads to Winterfell. Let's check out the aftermath. Does Littlefinger try to be in control? Does Sansa get all machivellian on this shit? Does Jon do something (dear god anything, please) to make me care about him again? Seriously is Jon's northern accent getting thicker? Is Davos really still salty about that Shireen shit? She even admits she was wrong. Oh execution! Maybe she dies! I kind of hope not. She's got too unique of a perspective to get rid of, imo. Exile is lame. Why hanged as a murderer? Shouldn't she be beheaded or some shit so that we can have the person who passes the sentence swings the sword thing over again? Jesus fuck when are Jon and Sansa going to bang? Also of course, we get reminded again that Jon is a bastard and not a true Stark. Come on, guys, just reveal his lineage already. This game you're playing is getting old. OHMYGOD JON AND SANSA JUST FUCK ALREADY.

No god dammit I hate Dorne can we just forget about this section of the show even exists? Okay Olenna's here, so it's alright at least. And she even told the Sand Snakes to shut the fuck up so we don't even have to suffer through their shitty dialogue (the asian one is super pretty, though. I wouldn't mind giving her a bit more screen time, at least). WOOO Varys! I knew the Dorne camp was angling for a Targaryen return, but it's interesting to see the Tyrell's getting pulled into it.

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohmyhol yfuckingshitIdon'tgiveafuckaboutdanaerys. Ugh who fucking cares who Dany's banging? She's clearly going to be experimenting in the near future.

Aaaand another reminder that the Mad King was mad. Weeeeeee Tyrion is Hand again! He was fucking great as Hand.

lolwat is this the new Frey pies? Sure is. Kind of heavy handed, though. In the books Frey Pies was more or less left up to implication. I am confused by how Arya changed faces. She never learned how to do that. Even in the books (where she actually has changed faces before) the face change was always done for her.

No you didn't go to the godswood Sansa. Did you forget that you followed more of the ways of the new gods like your mom? Ugh Littlefinger don't tell me you're so singleminded. Also don't bring that sowing discord shit in here. Jon and Sansa don't have to be opposed.

Aw, bye uncle Benjen. It was good to see you again. And now Bran is going to warg into the weirwood. "I'm the three-eyed raven now" No dumbass you're the kid that got the Three-Eyed Raven killed. You still don't know what the fuck you're doing. Okay at least it's the Tower of Joy. Let's watch Jon being born! Oh my god don't muffle his name. We all know who this is. Everyone. Everyone knows. Why are you intentionally drawing all this shit out? Uuuuggggghhhhhh.

Come on man, they made Lord Manderly a mute bitch? He's the fucking badass who did Frey Pies! He should be played by god damn John Goodman and he should dominate every scene he's in. Mother fuck. This girl gets it, though. Oh they gave Manderly some lines. Still would be better if it was John Goodman delivering them, though. Sansa's going to be salty.

Dumb coronation scene.

Dumb Dany sailing away scene (but very beautiful. That's a cool looking fleet). What? Why is Varys back with them? He's in Westeros sowing discord and paving the way for Dany's (or fAegon's?) invasion.


Ugh. Fine. That's an acceptable season finale, I suppose. A lot of it seems to be their (very rushed) pieces falling into place. I will say though that the last two episodes were beautifully shot. Very visually appealing. I think they were both directed by the same guy (iirc) so yeah give that guy some kind of award.
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Old 28th-June-2016, 04:54 AM   #312
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Default Re: Game of Thrones

Quote:
Also how did Qyburn get those kids to commit murder for him?
Apparently they can't get candy anywhere else in the city.
or maybe Qyburn's been lacing the pixie stix with PCP.
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Old 28th-June-2016, 05:20 AM   #313
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Default Re: Game of Thrones

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Spoiler:

Yeah it'll be Jaime's hand that does it foreshore. I had no idea about the prophecy specifying that she died by her brother's hand, but still the narrative pointed me towards Jaime being the one that does it. Now that there's a little bro prophecy, it would be a waste for Martin not to subvert the prophecy. Of course, his subversion of prophecy is a trope in itself... so he could swing the other way to keep us on our toes, but that seems a bit pointless.
I think Jamie's a strong contender for valonquar, but I do just want to point out that the prophecy doesn't necessarily specify that it will be her little brother who does her in. It just says that the/a valonquar kills her and valonquar roughly translates to little brother. As such there are actually a lot of theories as to who the valonquar is, from Tyrion to fucking Jorah and beyond.

Would be funny to see someone else kill her with Jamie's hand. That way she dies by her younger brother's hand but he isn't the one who does it.

Or some other equally ironic twist of fate/interpretation.

GRRM actually has an odd track record with prophecies. Usually in the books, when people try to make prophecies about something specific they fall short, but there are actually several instances of people making spot on prophecies but with the caveat that they're telling these prophecies to people who are very far away and unable to affect or witness the outcomes (ie. the Ghost of High Heart telling Arya about the man with no face and a drowned crow on his shoulder waiting on a swaying bridge (ie. that Euron hired the faceless men to kill Theon's dad I forget his name right now)).

So yeah, this prophecy seems somewhere in between those extremes though so I dunno what the deal is on it's legitimacy. All three of her kids have died before her so it seems like it's holding true. And there are at least three interpretations of the younger and more beautiful queen taking all that she holds dear which could be viable (one did just go up in flames though, so it might be more like two and a half).

I guess we'll just have to wait and see
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Old 28th-June-2016, 06:03 AM   #314
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Spoiler:

Quote:
Would be funny to see someone else kill her with Jamie's hand.
Oh disregard my previous utterances, that's the sexiest subversion I can think of. I am totally on-board with this. Now it's about who is wielding the hand? Maybe it's both Tyrion and Jaime? Did Jaime become hand of the king at some point? I don't recall... But Tyrion did. Maybe they Hoth her round the neck with the hand while both being hands so as to fulfill the prophecy on multiple levels ^_^

Mmm Cersei having all she holds dear taken from her... Has it happened yet? How much does she value Jaime? And power? Does it specify that it's one person taking it all from her?

The Tyrels were in on the Joffrey kill. How much connection to the daughter kill did they have (I can't remember any, but it was at the hands of a younger more beautiful to-be queen)? Because they took Tommen. She's mentioned all she cares about are her children, but power and Jaime must be in there somewhere.

Also, the faith militant just went up in flames. Were they all in that building? Because if they were, there can't have been that many of them. The forces that Cersei has left to her would have to be smaller than the forces that died in the explosion, because otherwise she'd have overthrown them long ago. This limits what can realistically be written in for her in the next season.
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Old 28th-June-2016, 06:29 AM   #315
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Oh disregard my previous utterances, that's the sexiest subversion I can think of. I am totally on-board with this. Now it's about who is wielding the hand? Maybe it's both Tyrion and Jaime? Did Jaime become hand of the king at some point? I don't recall... But Tyrion did. Maybe they Hoth her round the neck with the hand while both being hands so as to fulfill the prophecy on multiple levels ^_^
I don't think Jamie has, no. To my recollection, Kevan was hand until everything went kablooey. There's still time for Cersei to make Jamie hand and when he and Tyrion meet up they can beat her up with his hand and jab her with their little hand pins.

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Mmm Cersei having all she holds dear taken from her... Has it happened yet? How much does she value Jaime? And power? Does it specify that it's one person taking it all from her?
This is my line of thinking as well. It's well established in earlier seasons that everything she does is for her children. But she still clearly has motivation so maybe the "taking everything" bit comes when she's broken at the end.

The prophecy certainly implies it's one specific person, but I'll let you be the judge. The exact exchange is this:
"Cersei: When will I wed the prince?
Maggy: Never. You will wed the king.
Cersei: I will be queen, though?
Maggy: Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear"


I don't think the Tyrells could really be complicit in Myrcella's death, especially since it seems like it's going to be two different deaths between book and show. She actually hasn't died yet in the books, so there's always a chance it becomes a Sand Snake plot of betrayal, but as of now the Sand Snakes actually seem pretty chill with Doran and the plans he's making and Myrcella is very valuable to them alive.

It was actually Gerold Dayne (some relative of Arthur Dayne, the Sword of Morning) who's attacked Myrcella in the books. And at best it seems he only wounded her and people attending her seem confident in her recovery, so I really can't say how similarly it will unfold compared to the show.
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Old 28th-June-2016, 06:43 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by Brontosaurie View Post
Are you telling me you can't see what happens here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJBwgRMSnnc

?

With all due respect, that's bullshit. Steady camera can be used to good effect, but GoT doesn't let the visual content and composition speak within the frame like, say, Jodorowsky or Kubrick. There's just a lack of subtle flavorful movement to the lens eye, a lack of dynamic between characters and proxy beholder. Cherry Cola told me it's for budget constraints and i'm inclined to believe that. It's not pretty - and coincidentally your justification is nonsense.
Honestly, I don't even really know what you're talking about. I don't see how that would make the show all that "more" expensive or even better, but whatever.

After having seen some bad action movies that constantly move the camera around and make it either nauseating or hard to see what's happening, I honestly thought you were joking. Guess not; now you just sound artsy-fartsy, complaining about the show not having your particular brand of artistic subtleties. Yeah okay, you think this discredits the artistic value of the show. Fine, but art's subjective anyway; I think your video clip was annoying to watch, so happy day to you too, Mr. Artsy-Fartsy.
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Old 28th-June-2016, 07:30 AM   #317
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Well apparently people liked my thought-by-thought analysis of last episode (or maybe you were being sarcastic in which case fuck you I'm doing it anyway)
No they're great, it's what we all see but are too lazy to type, so it's cool when someone else writes it :P
Don't forget to come here next season (or when Winds of Winter comes out, if it ever comes out)

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Not what I would expect of Cersei regarding Tommen's death. Each successive death in her family has (or should have) made her more and more unhinged. For Tommen's suicide to actually be her fault should actually break her brain. She should be nuttier than the mad king ever was right now.
I guess the point is that she has resigned herself to her fate or something like that. But yeah, it's really dumb and rushed.

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Okay Sam, while I do appreciate the view you've picked out for yourself, don't you think you should've rode the carriage all the way into town? Ooooh shit, are those white ravens flying out of the Citadel? It's Winter, motherfuckers! Let's get this shit started. Why is Sam doing this cutesy bullshit? Why is this maester doing this asshole bullshit? Why is Gilly here? I don't get what the point of this drama is when it should be straightforward. Why does Sam look so jumpy and scared walking into the library?
I hope the building collapses on top of them and their whole storyline is finished.


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The white raven heads to Winterfell. Let's check out the aftermath. Does Littlefinger try to be in control? Does Sansa get all machivellian on this shit? Does Jon do something (dear god anything, please) to make me care about him again? Seriously is Jon's northern accent getting thicker? Is Davos really still salty about that Shireen shit? She even admits she was wrong. Oh execution! Maybe she dies! I kind of hope not. She's got too unique of a perspective to get rid of, imo. Exile is lame. Why hanged as a murderer? Shouldn't she be beheaded or some shit so that we can have the person who passes the sentence swings the sword thing over again? Jesus fuck when are Jon and Sansa going to bang? Also of course, we get reminded again that Jon is a bastard and not a true Stark. Come on, guys, just reveal his lineage already. This game you're playing is getting old. OHMYGOD JON AND SANSA JUST FUCK ALREADY.
Trope: good guys don't do incest. Although he does like redheads, right?
There's still aunt-nephew incest coming though, hopefully. Probably before they are actually aware of their relation, so they don't taint his snowy-white pure morals.

Melisandre is not gone, she will find some place. Although if I was Jon, I would definitely keep her near, she's powerful. Although I wouldn't bang her (I wouldn't want to father a shadow, and plus: The Shining-like scene. Gross).

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No god dammit I hate Dorne can we just forget about this section of the show even exists? Okay Olenna's here, so it's alright at least. And she even told the Sand Snakes to shut the fuck up so we don't even have to suffer through their shitty dialogue (the asian one is super pretty, though. I wouldn't mind giving her a bit more screen time, at least). WOOO Varys! I knew the Dorne camp was angling for a Targaryen return, but it's interesting to see the Tyrell's getting pulled into it.
Yeah but seeing the Dornish fight in a battle would be pretty cool I think.

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Ugh. Fine. That's an acceptable season finale, I suppose. A lot of it seems to be their (very rushed) pieces falling into place. I will say though that the last two episodes were beautifully shot. Very visually appealing. I think they were both directed by the same guy (iirc) so yeah give that guy some kind of award.
I think visually it always ranges from fine to stunning, it was never bad. The actors also did a good job. It's only the writing that's gone bad.

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Apparently they can't get candy anywhere else in the city.
or maybe Qyburn's been lacing the pixie stix with PCP.
That's actually an awesome idea. Evil, worthy of Qyburn, worthy of GoT.

Leaving Daario behind is a stupid idea. It's VERY important to have personal bodyguards. If you don't want to bang him anymore, just don't bang him, I mean how weak are you? Whatever.

Tyrion gets to be hand even though he really messed up everything? Dumb. No tension. It would be more fun if she was angry and he redeems himself by making some really cool move.
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Old 28th-June-2016, 07:41 AM   #318
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Tyrion gets to be hand even though he really messed up everything? Dumb. No tension. It would be more fun if she was angry and he redeems himself by making some really cool move.
He didn't really mess much up. Things were already messed up and he did a pretty effective job at maintaining things as long as possible.

That said, I agree, her trust in him is very premature from her perspective.
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Old 28th-June-2016, 07:47 AM   #319
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He didn't really mess much up. Things were already messed up and he did a pretty effective job at maintaining things as long as possible.

That said, I agree, her trust in him is very premature from her perspective.
He did mess up. I agree that he couldn't do anything else, but his plan failed; why reward him for that? If anything Varys should be hand of the king queen, he was much more useful to her.
Don't get me wrong, I like Tyrion and I love the fact that he gets to be hand again, but it doesn't make sense.
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Old 28th-June-2016, 11:53 AM   #320
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Agreed with Cheeseumpuffs to the letter. He didn't mess up, he just didn't excel at all. I mean, knowing that the slavers were attacking would have been Varys's job...

Trying to broker a deal and not achieving it pretty much the same outcome as not trying diplomacy at all. He wasn't successful, but nobody else could have done better without an author with motive behind them.

In fact, you could argue that failing the negotiations and having them attack was a huge win, because then Dany was able to clean up the slavers in one fell swoop. But that'd be pushing my luck.

I think they had some big intentions for Tyrion when he took over, but then the writers changed their minds at the last second. Instead they just gave us a bunch of back-and-forth that didn't really progress the story. Stinks of choppy filler to me.
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Old 28th-June-2016, 01:56 PM   #321
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Well Dany trusted Daario who has more of a reason to not be trusted since he came from nothing and only wants to have sex with her. Ill be honest in all the scenes with Daario I was lkke "will he kill her now?" Actually he might now since she ditched him. Who knows what kind of mess Daario will create. He did say "f*** the people" right when she ditched him. At least Tyrion killed his own weird dad and has "diplomatic experience" of how things run in Kings Landing and Westeros etc, has battle field experience, and knows family ins and outs. He knew all about the iron born and how stupid theon is. Tyrion has the personal experience. Varys just knows the whispers. Varys trusts him too I think. Theyre both really valuable to each other.
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Old 28th-June-2016, 03:13 PM   #322
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Honestly, I don't even really know what you're talking about. I don't see how that would make the show all that "more" expensive or even better, but whatever.

After having seen some bad action movies that constantly move the camera around and make it either nauseating or hard to see what's happening, I honestly thought you were joking. Guess not; now you just sound artsy-fartsy, complaining about the show not having your particular brand of artistic subtleties. Yeah okay, you think this discredits the artistic value of the show. Fine, but art's subjective anyway; I think your video clip was annoying to watch, so happy day to you too, Mr. Artsy-Fartsy.
You did see what was happening in the clip, right? Happy day mr invalid argument I'm not talking about exaggerated shaking during heavy complex action sequences, just a bit of movement all-round. Not sure why that would be a joke, seeing as GoT camera work looks limp and dull as it is.

If it's all about taste, why did you choose to argue in the first place?
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Old 28th-June-2016, 03:28 PM   #323
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I hope the building collapses on top of them and their whole storyline is finished.
About the only interesting thing coming out of that sequence right now (unless Daddy Turley shows up to get his Valarian steel back) is the connection made to the show opener -- it looks like the opening map w/ moving parts connects to the images seen in the library where Sam now is.

Has nothing to do with the plot, I suppose, but it's kind a nice freebie.

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Melisandre is not gone, she will find some place. Although if I was Jon, I would definitely keep her near, she's powerful. Although I wouldn't bang her (I wouldn't want to father a shadow, and plus: The Shining-like scene. Gross).
Maybe they're setting her up to cure Jorah. Meh.

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I think visually it always ranges from fine to stunning, it was never bad. The actors also did a good job. It's only the writing that's gone bad.
I'm generally in agreement that it's not the actors' fault, and the directing is typically at least on par with other high-budget TV shows and sometimes excels. I think everything we bitch about comes from consistency (or lack of it) in plot and character... i.e., writing problems. They do nail some individual scenes wonderfully, but then afterwards, suddenly it's like they don't really connect up consistently to the larger arc of plot or character and thus lose sense...

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That's actually an awesome idea. Evil, worthy of Qyburn, worthy of GoT.
Incest, murder, rape, threats of dwarf tossing... but no, we're not allowed to feed controlled substances to children.

WHERE DO THESE LINES GET DRAWN

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Leaving Daario behind is a stupid idea. It's VERY important to have personal bodyguards. If you don't want to bang him anymore, just don't bang him, I mean how weak are you? Whatever.
Essentially just clearing the board and/or freeing the actor up, potentially. he's started doing movies. (He was in The Invitation last year, which was decent enough.) But I don't know if his movie career is THAT good.

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Tyrion gets to be hand even though he really messed up everything? Dumb. No tension. It would be more fun if she was angry and he redeems himself by making some really cool move.
Yup. She's been far too kind to him; the show hasn't justified her response. it was touching from Tyrion's POV to be made Hand, but I don't think she'd be happy with him right now, considering how wary and touchy she could be for how many seasons...
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Old 28th-June-2016, 04:30 PM   #324
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Maybe they're setting her up to cure Jorah. Meh.
Or maybe she'll join Dany.

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They do nail some individual scenes wonderfully, but then afterwards, suddenly it's like they don't really connect up consistently to the larger arc of plot or character and thus lose sense...
Yeah, it's like a general lack of coherence. It may be that the problem is having more than one writer. They may be individually good, and before they were following the books so they were sticking to Martin's vision. But now that they have to come up with new material, there is no long-term vision sticking all the pieces together.
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Old 28th-June-2016, 04:40 PM   #325
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To contrast that, I think GRRM's original stuff lifted and dropped in the show has been far more cohesive... but I expect this is what is creating all the delays in his book publication. He's got a lot of problems to solve in terms of big-picture cohesion (with so many pieces) and he's struggling to get it all connected up, as far as book goes.
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Old 28th-June-2016, 07:54 PM   #326
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I don't know if this has been said already, but from a meta-perspective Tyrion is probably the most trustworthy on the show, as well as having a moral bent. I see his motivation and intentions in line with Dany's, but from a more analytical bent; maybe that's more important to her than whether or not everything Tyrion did went according to plan. I don't know, but I guess that's why I didn't see a problem with her making him Hand.
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Old 28th-June-2016, 08:01 PM   #327
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You did see what was happening in the clip, right? Happy day mr invalid argument I'm not talking about exaggerated shaking during heavy complex action sequences, just a bit of movement all-round. Not sure why that would be a joke, seeing as GoT camera work looks limp and dull as it is.

If it's all about taste, why did you choose to argue in the first place?
It's just funny how you care more about how the show is presented to you than the actual content, the drama, the acting, the characters nuances, the meta-stories and how they interlock, the moral/philosophical problems/themes portrayed on the show, etc. I mean, if you don't like it, fine, but the show isn't bad by any means just because it isn't presented to you in a way that you appreciate.

And from what you said before, if you don't like the characters as well, fine. But you also don't know the characters from watching an episode here and there; you're only judging them out of context of the meta-story going on in the show. Again fine, but it doesn't make them all "despicable cunts" either. So whatever.

anyway,
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Old 29th-June-2016, 03:40 AM   #328
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I don't know if this has been said already, but from a meta-perspective Tyrion is probably the most trustworthy on the show, as well as having a moral bent. I see his motivation and intentions in line with Dany's, but from a more analytical bent; maybe that's more important to her than whether or not everything Tyrion did went according to plan. I don't know, but I guess that's why I didn't see a problem with her making him Hand.
We all love to see Tyrion as hand again; who doesn't love Tyrion? That's not the point. The point is that it doesn't make sense to suddenly make him hand, even before she actually takes the throne, if he hasn't really proven himself yet.

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To contrast that, I think GRRM's original stuff lifted and dropped in the show has been far more cohesive... but I expect this is what is creating all the delays in his book publication. He's got a lot of problems to solve in terms of big-picture cohesion (with so many pieces) and he's struggling to get it all connected up, as far as book goes.
Well, I think Martin's stuff is more cohesive. It's easier to be cohesive when it's just one guy writing novels, instead of a whole production. He knows where the story is going and takes his time to make each novel really high-quality. And that's the problem with TV shows: rushed writing doesn't usually work. Look at True Detective Season 2: same brilliant writer, but rushed. Didn't work.
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Old 29th-June-2016, 07:01 AM   #329
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Wow that episode was much better than the last one i saw.
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Old 29th-June-2016, 08:25 AM   #330
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We all love to see Tyrion as hand again; who doesn't love Tyrion? That's not the point. The point is that it doesn't make sense to suddenly make him hand, even before she actually takes the throne, if he hasn't really proven himself yet.
I guess I see it differently. Tyrion's role was as a diplomat for Dany; he represented her by making the deal with the masters to bring peace and order to Mereen. And he did achieve that. Of course the Master's eventually betrayed the deal and attacked Mereen, probably would reason that it was defenseless (and it was until Dany arrived). However, Tyrion's not a military commander and it's not his job to raise Armys and wage war - that's Dany's job. But as a diplomat, Tyrion did exactly what he was supposed to and got the Masters to back off for awhile; more importantly, he represented Dany and didn't betray her in the process, letting Dany deal with the warring. And Tyrion even believes in Dany as a leader. I would think someone like that is ideal, considering the Hand is someone the King/Queen trusts to act diplomatically in their interest.

But if it's expected that the Hand of the King/Queen is supposed to be a direct replacement for the King/Queen, then I guess I agree with you. But I see the Hand more as a trustworthy assistant/adviser/diplomat and I think that's the role played on the show, as far I gathered anyway. I think Tyrion has proven himself for this role better than anyone else around Dany. Course, you're right, it's kind of early to assign a Hand before taking the throne, but I see it more as a gesture on her part that she's expecting to take it.
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Old 29th-June-2016, 09:49 PM   #331
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Well, I think Martin's stuff is more cohesive. It's easier to be cohesive when it's just one guy writing novels, instead of a whole production. He knows where the story is going and takes his time to make each novel really high-quality. And that's the problem with TV shows: rushed writing doesn't usually work. Look at True Detective Season 2: same brilliant writer, but rushed. Didn't work.
Oh why oh why did you bring up TD Season 2? *heartbroken*

Yeah, what a mess. It was more confusing to follow than the mafia game here on site. And a huge miscast with Vaughn IMO, although I found new respect for Rachel McAdams and Colin Farrell.

I guess I can just rewatch S2e4 gunfight to ease the pain.
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Old 29th-June-2016, 10:10 PM   #332
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Uhh why the fuck was Varys in that last scene?
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Old 29th-June-2016, 10:22 PM   #333
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Because Scotty beamed him home from Dorne?
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Old 16th-December-2016, 09:14 PM   #334
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Why am I the only one that hates Emilia Clarke's casting? She is too fat to play Dany, and I don't give a damn if anyone's offended by that. She's also not pretty enough to play a Targaryen, and on top of it all she's a terrible actress. So WHY? WHY Clarke? Harry Lloyd as Viserys was fantastic, almost every actor in the show is tier 1. Clarke is so obviously below everyone else, and she gets nomination after nomination.

THIS is Dany:

http://orig00.deviantart.net/9aa5/f/...io-d5rhs03.jpg

Her beauty is supposed to make your eyes hurt. Granted: not easy to find an actress like that. BUT THAT'S THEIR F*****G JOB. They did it with Jaime: he looks like a prince out of a fairy-tale; just as described in the books. So why did they fail with Dany? And guess what, they already had a good candidate:

http://images.express.co.uk/img/dyna...dary/25388.jpg

Her name is Tamzin Merchant. She played in the pilot and everything. Unlike Clarke, she's an experienced actress (not that good but definitely above Clarke). She has the looks, and I guarantee you she has the body too (can't post naked pics here but I'm sure you guys can look her up)

So what the hell happened?

And besides, there's a million other options. How hard can it be to find a good candidate? Off the top of my mind, Kaya Scodelario had just finished Skins by the time GoT was released. She must've been about 19 and already had experience. She's not a blonde but that's easily fixed and she's one of the most stunning girls I've come across in my life.

https://www.skinnygossip.com/communi...e9ca3040f7d518

Dye her hair blonde, give her some purple eye contacts and she's Daenerys Stormborn in the flesh.

God, if there's something I hate in this world is incompetence. I do MY job, and I do it right, why can't everyone else do the same?

Rant over folks. Thanks for reading. Mods please don't delete it, it's very important.
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Old 16th-December-2016, 11:51 PM   #335
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Wasn't Dany suppose to be 13 originally? I haven't read the books myself (yet), so I may be wrong. But George Martin wanted to keep it authentic, and in that time girls were married off at that age. But for obvious reasons, they wanted her to be a woman in the series.

In answer, though, I guess the makers idea of beauty may be different to yours. Plenty of people think Emilia Clarke is gorgeous enough. Personally, I just don't because I'm not fussed on the character for some reason.
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Old 17th-December-2016, 12:05 AM   #336
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Wasn't Dany suppose to be 13 originally? I haven't read the books myself (yet), so I may be wrong. But George Martin wanted to keep it authentic, and in that time girls were married off at that age. But for obvious reasons, they wanted her to be a woman in the series.
Yes, my understanding was that she was 13 or so in the series, at the beginning. But HBO understandably was leery due to the early storypath of sticking a 13-year-old in a sex scenario... plus maybe casting as well.

It's not really ever been explained why Merchant was recast, except that it was HBO's call for that and redoing the pilot episode. Clarke is only a year older than Merchant.

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In answer, though, I guess the makers idea of beauty may be different to yours. Plenty of people think Emilia Clarke is gorgeous enough. Personally, I just don't because I'm not fussed on the character for some reason.
She seems like a decent enough person but I don't look at her in the show and think she's beautiful. I'm indifferent to her performances as an actress as well, she's kind of flat and I tend to be bored by Daenerys at this stage of the game. She has the noble/calmly imperious thing down, but ehhhh....

Melisandre seems to stick out, more example. (Well, young Melisandre. ) Gilly has a very pretty face, and maybe Missandei, and Margaery, as far as the women go. (My little eye spies things that begin with M!)

I am pretty happy with much of the casting otherwise. I have trouble thinking of someone else who stands out as a poor choice. I'd gripe much more about some of the writing at times; the show has become more inconsistent -- there's some great moments bookended by blah ones (e.g., much of the Sand Snakes / Dorne crap last season).
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Old 17th-December-2016, 12:14 AM   #337
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Yes, my understanding was that she was 13 or so in the series, at the beginning. But HBO understandably was leery due to the early storypath of sticking a 13-year-old in a sex scenario... plus maybe casting as well.
I did say for obvious reasons.

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She seems like a decent enough person but I don't look at her in the show and think she's beautiful. Melisandre seems to stick out, more example. (Well, young Melisandre. ) Gilly has a very pretty face, and maybe Missandei, and Margaery, as far as the women go. (My little eye spies things that begin with M!)
Totally agree. As long as she keeps that necklace on, Melissindre is seriously hot. And I'm still reeling from the loss of Margaery. Not just because she's the hottest of the women, but because I loved the character. At least the grandmother is still around - she's awesome. Her bluntness works on everyone - except the sparrow. For once, we missed the way Joffrey would have handled him. He would have had him quartered when he tried to take Marge.
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Old 17th-December-2016, 12:16 AM   #338
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And remember - winter is coming. In spring.
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Old 17th-December-2016, 12:18 AM   #339
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I did say for obvious reasons.



Totally agree. As long as she keeps that necklace on, Melissindre is seriously hot. And I'm still reeling from the loss of Margaery. Not just because she's the hottest of the women, but because I loved the character. At least the grandmother is still around - she's awesome. Her bluntness works on everyone - except the sparrow. For once, we missed the way Joffrey would have handled him. He would have had him quartered when he tried to take Marge.
Yeah, Olenna is absolutely awesome. Diana Rigg was gorgeous in her day too, and she's a crafty old bird even now, she has a lot of fun with that role.

You're right about Joffrey, heh. Sometimes being a pompous little asshat has its benefits, and poor Tommen was the right king at the wrong time and age. It was kind of a shocker with Margaery and Tommen, although I'm glad about Mace... god, what an idiot. It's like the "smart" gene skipped a generation in there....
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if it's not pushed to summer!


HODOR

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Old 17th-December-2016, 12:34 AM   #340
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Yeah, Olenna is absolutely awesome. Diana Rigg was gorgeous in her day too, and she's a crafty old bird even now, she has a lot of fun with that role.

You're right about Joffrey, heh. Sometimes being a pompous little asshat has its benefits, and poor Tommen was the right king at the wrong time and age. It was kind of a shocker with Margaery and Tommen, although I'm glad about Mace... god, what an idiot. It's like the "smart" gene skipped a generation in there....


if it's not pushed to summer!


HODOR

:(
HODOR!

As much as we were all glad to see Joffrey's fate (which is a testiment to the acting of a guy that's apparently lovely in RL), he had his uses. If only Tommen had had a few years before being crowned. I was hoping he'd have his moment of standing up then - "I am king, and you have assaulted the queen. Guards - cease them!" Pity Tywin wasn't there. He'd have sorted it. But, meh, he did not, in fact, shit gold.
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Old 17th-December-2016, 12:47 AM   #341
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Default Re: Game of Thrones

I just want TWoW to come out already..........
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Old 17th-December-2016, 12:50 AM   #342
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I just want HBO to make The Saga Of Seven Suns into a TV series. Is that really too much to ask? Took me 4 months to read all 7 books. I want it on screen.
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Old 17th-December-2016, 02:52 AM   #343
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Why am I the only one that hates Emilia Clarke's casting?
I also hate Emilia as Dany, but it has nothing to do with her weight.

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Wasn't Dany suppose to be 13 originally?
Literally all of the characters in the series were aged up for the show. ShowRobb was in his 20s whereas BookRobb was only like 16-17. Ned and Robert and that whole generation appears as being in their late 40s and 50s in the show but are for the most part only in their 30s and early 40s in the books.

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I'm glad about Mace... god, what an idiot. It's like the "smart" gene skipped a generation in there....
The show really did him no service. He actually seems like a moderately intelligent fellow in the books.


Also fun fact; it's implied Joffrey sexually assaulted Tommen on quite a few occasions in the books (keep in mind that book Tommen is like 9 or 10 or something absurdly young like that).
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Old 17th-December-2016, 03:50 AM   #344
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Default Re: Game of Thrones

To anyone who wonders why GoT is such an edgy shit.

It's essentially directly borrowed or inspired by history, namely the War of the Roses and many similar events or historical figures from medieval times. There's hardly anything original in there.

You can say that reality of those times was similarly brutal and deviant, or even more so. Though Martin compiles all of the edgiest filth spread across centuries into one story that plays out within 50 years, so the ratio of edgy is ramped up a lot.
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Old 18th-December-2016, 12:35 AM   #345
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HODOR!

As much as we were all glad to see Joffrey's fate (which is a testiment to the acting of a guy that's apparently lovely in RL), he had his uses. If only Tommen had had a few years before being crowned. I was hoping he'd have his moment of standing up then - "I am king, and you have assaulted the queen. Guards - cease them!" Pity Tywin wasn't there. He'd have sorted it. But, meh, he did not, in fact, shit gold.
Tywin was damned crafty and competent (I really wanted to see him and Olenna either go truly head to head OR gang up on someone); but his flaw was that he underestimated his bastard son. (There's still that pesky rumor about Tyrion's lineage. I guess we shall soon find out.)
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Old 18th-December-2016, 12:38 AM   #346
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The show really did him no service. He actually seems like a moderately intelligent fellow in the books.
Yeah, that was what I heard as well, he wasn't nearly that dumb in the books. Some of the characters just did not fare as well on screen -- Ellaria from what I understand was more reasonable in the books, and Dorne didn't get such the shaft?

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Also fun fact; it's implied Joffrey sexually assaulted Tommen on quite a few occasions in the books (keep in mind that book Tommen is like 9 or 10 or something absurdly young like that).
Good god. Well, it doesn't shock me. Joffrey was a bastard and not in terms of lineage, although, well, I guess he was that too, wasn't he? ROFL
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Old 18th-December-2016, 01:09 AM   #347
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Also fun fact; it's implied Joffrey sexually assaulted Tommen on quite a few occasions in the books (keep in mind that book Tommen is like 9 or 10 or something absurdly young like that).
I didn't see that. If anything Joffrey comes off as asexual.
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