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Old 28th-April-2014, 02:20 PM   #51
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True or false: only SJ looosers listen to the entire 90 second theme song every time before watching an episode.
Definitely true, I barely made it through the damn thing watching the first episode; I am no SJ loooser therefore.
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Old 28th-April-2014, 02:47 PM   #52
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True or false: only SJ looosers listen to the entire 90 second theme song every time before watching an episode.
Tis' not a song, but yes, it's monotonous and skippable.

I watched S1, so I think you mean that one, I don't know if they change from S to S.
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Old 28th-April-2014, 09:26 PM   #53
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Geez louise. I didn't say I actually sat THROUGH the theme song, although sometimes I'd let it play if I was running to the bathroom.

I streamed every episode and by Episode #5, since I was streaming from my laptop, I'd just use the mouse and skip ahead if I didn't have to get a drink or anything else pre-episode.

And occasionally I'd watch the opening just because I like the animation, not because of the theme song. The graphics were pretty cool. A friend of mine told me over the weekend that the modeling software was pretty extensive and there were many many gears that you never see that contribute to the pieces that are actually visible rising and falling on the screen.
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Old 28th-April-2014, 09:40 PM   #54
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0_o
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Old 28th-April-2014, 10:38 PM   #55
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I watch the intro all the way through every single time.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 12:27 AM   #56
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While I've recently begun watching the show, and, in fact, enjoy it, I'm severely bothered by it's portrayal of women. The only time any woman does anything important, it's because she gave birth to someone, or something, or because some powerful male allowed her to. It's either a connection she has, or her vagina. Women certainly have no importance by their own virtues!

It reminds me very much of a game of D&D a grog would highly enjoy. Full of rape, incest, misogyny, and there are even, yes, fart jokes. The story is good, the plot is solid, but I can't help but imagine the DM as a neck-beard who's privately getting off on it.
I think you would enjoy your life more if you were a neckbeard for an hour every week while watching Game of Thrones.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 12:57 AM   #57
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oh goddam, i must be an sj then cuz i dress in every chapter as the character who died in the last episode singing along to the main theme.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 03:59 AM   #58
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oh goddam, i must be an sj then cuz i dress in every chapter as the character who died in the last episode singing along to the main theme.
YouTube it or it doesn't count.

Lady Olenna was already one of my heroes.
...Now, doubly moreso.

And Tommen in the latest episode -- he had this look on his face like he had no idea what "getting some" means but he's still expecting it to be really darn good when it finally happens.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 12:55 PM   #59
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oh goddam, i must be an sj then cuz i dress in every chapter as the character who died in the last episode singing along to the main theme.
That's slightly more NPish. You get a pass.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 01:21 PM   #60
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it was a blantant attempt to joke at least i thought it was.
*me perishing*
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Old 29th-April-2014, 01:23 PM   #61
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it was a blantant attempt to joke at least i thought it was.
*me perishing*

Dissatisfied with the responses, are you?
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Old 29th-April-2014, 01:34 PM   #62
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Dissatisfied with the responses, are you?
the way i set up the response itself was another attempt at joking, the meaning wasn't so i'm not dissatisfied. <3
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Old 29th-April-2014, 01:36 PM   #63
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the way i set up the response itself was another attempt at joking, the meaning wasn't so i'm not dissatisfied. <3
Being misunderstood, are you?
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Old 29th-April-2014, 01:37 PM   #64
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Base Groove you fucking bully when will you learn to be kind and treat people with raspect?
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Old 29th-April-2014, 01:40 PM   #65
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Base Groove you fucking bully when will you learn to be kind and treat people with raspect?
specially when they spent hours writting long meaningfull texts and and getting no response back, no suicide notes tho.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 01:53 PM   #66
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specially when they spent hours writting long meaningfull texts and and getting no response back, no suicide notes tho.
What? Eyh fuck you! Come on, I have a life and I live in another time zone, I got that text yesterday evening and now I've just gotten home from work, there hasn't been much time for me to reply too it yet. I need time to sit down and read through it and think about it without any rush.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 01:56 PM   #67
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So since this is the game of thrones thread,

I have to ask you, @TheManBeyond

are you the Man Beyond the Wall?
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Old 29th-April-2014, 01:57 PM   #68
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What? Eyh fuck you! Come on, I have a life and I live in another time zone, I got that text yesterday evening and now I've just gotten home from work, there hasn't been much time for me to reply too it yet. I need time to sit down and read through it and think about it without any rush.
Well you're right, how cutie, <3 remember that when you read it.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 01:59 PM   #69
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So since this is the game of thrones thread,

I have to ask you, @TheManBeyond

are you the Man Beyond the Wall?
I'm beyond you and probably beyond everyone, slowly aproaching your sensitive area.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 02:06 PM   #70
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I'm beyond you and probably beyond everyone, slowly aproaching your sensitive area.
Can we call you Mister Blue Eyes?
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Old 29th-April-2014, 02:10 PM   #71
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Can we call you Mister Blue Eyes?
so be it, but... why?
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Old 29th-April-2014, 02:13 PM   #72
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Mister One-blue-eyed-jack from beyond the wall.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 02:23 PM   #73
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well yeah, he walks around, it's fine.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 02:43 PM   #74
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From last episode: "blue eyes... baby's got blue eyesssss...." ~ Elton John
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Old 29th-April-2014, 02:47 PM   #75
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From last episode: "blue eyes... baby's got blue eyesssss...." ~ Elton John
Thanks for spoiling me i was planning to see it today.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 06:33 PM   #76
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Man I fucking hate Ned Stark, so fucking stupid.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 07:28 PM   #77
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Thanks for spoiling me i was planning to see it today.
I'm sorry, I know I ruined the whole episode + probably the series for you.
Maybe you should stop watching.

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Man I fucking hate Ned Stark, so fucking stupid.
Now, now: Let's head off that kind of frustration before it goes too far!
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Old 29th-April-2014, 08:04 PM   #78
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Now, now: Let's head off that kind of frustration before it goes too far!
Well at least his is the epitome of SJ demise. But all the other people who had to suffer for his insipid worship of justice and honor.. no it is not right to let yourself and others suffer because you don't see the instrumentality of abstract ideas and instead hold them as things that are true in themselves.

I will not this and I will not that. It is not right to do this and it is not right to do that. But my lord what if we save a bunch of people by doing this which is principally wrong? No! I will not this.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 08:33 PM   #79
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Well at least his is the epitome of SJ demise. But all the other people who had to suffer for his insipid worship of justice and honor.. no it is not right to let yourself and others suffer because you don't see the instrumentality of abstract ideas and instead hold them as things that are true in themselves.

I will not this and I will not that. It is not right to do this and it is not right to do that. But my lord what if we save a bunch of people by doing this which is principally wrong? No! I will not this.
You don't laugh at my jokes anymore. Is it over between us? Alas.

About good ol' Neddy:
Spoiler:
Ned was a great character and I think a necessary one in the story, as he plays one extreme of approach to the "game of thrones" -- the honorable, straight-forward view of the world.

His betrayal and execution not just set a precedent for the show -- no character is sacred -- but also reveals how that kind of approach will fare under the actual reality of the world of the show.

He was honorable but not wise in the way of the world ... so noble that he was completely ill-suited as a player. It looks like in GoT, you're either the fucker or the fucked, and only the very talented like Margaery / House Tyrell manage to walk the line of self-protection/ambition while still generally not screwing over the undeserving.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 08:59 PM   #80
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You don't laugh at my jokes anymore. Is it over between us? Alas.
I didn't even notice it. Alas, my rage has blinded me!

And yeah, he's a great character that way. I just rewatched the first season though, and this time it really was very clear just how stupid he was. The lady of Thorns is a total badass, though if Tyrion reaches her age I think he'll be able to match her.

Jamie is a funny guy. Being both highly moral, vain like Ned Stark, and brutal like Tywin and Cersei. I'm rooting for Jamie, he's like a quirky ENFP Han Solo.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 09:37 PM   #81
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I didn't even notice it. Alas, my rage has blinded me!
Bwa ha ha ha. Don't stick your neck out like that again.

Quote:
And yeah, he's a great character that way. I just rewatched the first season though, and this time it really was very clear just how stupid he was.
I think it's easier in hindsight, now that we really GET the political nuance going on. Back then it was still a little vague. Were they blowing smoke? No.

Also, the world hadn't yet affirmed that nobility will not be rewarded.

Quote:
The lady of Thorns is a total badass, though if Tyrion reaches her age I think he'll be able to match her.
Diana Rigg is awesomesauce. She takes over whatever scene she's in. The scenes she's had alone with Charles Dance (Tywin) are some of the best, they are two formidable actors playing roles suited to them.

Quote:
Jamie is a funny guy. Being both highly moral, vain like Ned Stark, and brutal like Tywin and Cersei. I'm rooting for Jamie, he's like a quirky ENFP Han Solo.
Jaime is handled inconsistently on the show, enough that he's confusing to grasp. Comes off as a bad boy who is not nearly as bad as he pretends to be (he tries to cover it up with the amusing banter), still living under daddy's shadow and also caught in that ugly dance with his screwed-up sister. Some of the noblest moments for Jaime actually revolve around his interactions with Brienne.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 09:53 PM   #82
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How do you multiquote like that? I never figured out how to do it. I'm the guy who spent years on a computer without knowing how to copypaste : )

I think Jamie is supposed to be inconsistent, that's his personality. Still I hear that he's a bit different in the show compared to in the books. Like in the books he nearly kills Brienne when they battle it out, his status as a swordsman not in question at all. But yeah, man I liked Jamie because his scenes were rarely predictable.

The Tywin and Thorn-lady showdowns are the best. They are the two most formidable meta-gamers in the show thus far imo. It ends pretty evenly when they battle it out.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 10:00 PM   #83
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How do you multiquote like that? I never figured out how to do it. I'm the guy who spent years on a computer without knowing how to copypaste : )
Use BBcode tags. it's like HTML but with square brackets. You can type "[ quote ]" without the spaces to start a quote paragraph, for example.

Quote:
I think Jamie is supposed to be inconsistent, that's his personality. Still I hear that he's a bit different in the show compared to in the books. Like in the books he nearly kills Brienne when they battle it out, his status as a swordsman not in question at all. But yeah, man I liked Jamie because his scenes were rarely predictable.
Meh. No character is really inconsistent unless he's insane or chaotic neutral (haha) -- you just have to understand the framework in which they view the world. I think it's very difficult for someone to behave as he did in the more recent interaction with his sister, then turn around and respect a woman elsewhere. It's hard to be a total insensitive asshole who violates others, then turns around and behaves in an exquisitely sensitive way towards someone else; the character trait needs to filter through somehow. Hence, the directing is off a bit to give the actor a sense of what is needed to make the performance coherent.

Quote:
The Tywin and Thorn-lady showdowns are the best. They are the two most formidable meta-gamers in the show thus far imo. It ends pretty evenly when they battle it out.
I love how they're both so aware of what they're doing even while they're playing the game. Neither are fools or taken in by the other, they just play it out and revel in the gamemanship.
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Old 29th-April-2014, 10:14 PM   #84
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I think his most recent interaction with his sister was inconsistent in an unrealistic way as well. Strangely so looking back at the Brienne episodes. I guess him and his crazy sister have a.. complicated relationship, nonethefuckingless though

That scene was handled differently in the books, I'ma question my brother on it further next time we meet.
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Old 4th-May-2014, 11:19 AM   #85
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Read the books, you lazy bastards.

As for the show: Peter Dinklage rules. Emilia Clark is not thin enough to play Dany. And why isn't she wearing purple lenses?

Spoiler:
I think Jon is the prince that was promised. I think he is Lyanna Stark's (Ned's sister) and Rhaegar Targaryen's child.



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I think his most recent interaction with his sister was inconsistent in an unrealistic way as well. Strangely so looking back at the Brienne episodes. I guess him and his crazy sister have a.. complicated relationship, nonethefuckingless though

That scene was handled differently in the books, I'ma question my brother on it further next time we meet.
Yes, it was different. I'm not saying Jaime is an angel in the books, but I think he is above fucking his sister in front of his dead son.
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Old 5th-May-2014, 12:56 AM   #86
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Emilia Clark is not thin enough to play Dany.
Not thin enough? Why?
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Old 5th-May-2014, 01:14 AM   #87
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I don't know why, but I'm starting to like "The Hound". I think it's because he treats women well, despite having no other morals about what he does. But then again, that's a pretty big moral in itself.

Peter Dinklage is smart, but kind of a psychopath. I want to like him, but I know he's only in it for himself.
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Old 5th-May-2014, 01:16 AM   #88
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Not thin enough? Why?
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Read the books, you lazy bastards.
Idea?
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Old 6th-May-2014, 07:04 PM   #89
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Exactly. It's not just that though, Valyrians (and their descendants) are supposed to be inhumanly beautiful. They have millions of dollars are their disposal. Surprise me.

Something like this, maybe:

http://marioteodosio.deviantart.com/...arys-348509955
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Old 6th-May-2014, 09:38 PM   #90
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I don't know why, but I'm starting to like "The Hound". I think it's because he treats women well, despite having no other morals about what he does. But then again, that's a pretty big moral in itself.
Yes, he's rather "amoral." But he does also take people at face value. Unlike many of the people on the show, he doesn't play the manipulation games, really -- he's just a brute force of nature and appreciates those who are direct. He also doesn't seem to want to hurt people just to hurt them, he usually has some practical reason for doing so... (like the whole bit on the TV version with the farmer/kid and the silver coin).

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Peter Dinklage is smart, but kind of a psychopath. I want to like him, but I know he's only in it for himself.
Uhhhh... what? Is that something you're layering in from the book? Because that's not how he consistently comes across at all in the show; his attitude is not self-absorbed -- he's easily the most "other-centered" of everyone in his family and probably of everyone on the show. he also doesn't seem to want to be king at all, unlike many of the other characters. maybe the book was different...?
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Old 6th-May-2014, 09:48 PM   #91
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omg, i started reading the books. WTF does this means?

Spoiler:


Sit, Ghost," Jon commanded. "That's it. Keep still." He looked up at the dwarf. "You can touch him now. He won't move until I tell him to. I've been training him."

"I see," Lannister said. He ruffled the snow-white fur between Ghost's ears an

d said, "Nice wolf."

"If I wasn't here, he'd tear out your throat," Jon said. It wasn't actually true yet, but it would be.





Don't even answer
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Old 6th-May-2014, 11:05 PM   #92
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Uhhhh... what? Is that something you're layering in from the book? Because that's not how he consistently comes across at all in the show; his attitude is not self-absorbed -- he's easily the most "other-centered" of everyone in his family and probably of everyone on the show. he also doesn't seem to want to be king at all, unlike many of the other characters. maybe the book was different...?
lol, I thought he meant the actor! I always liked him, but since I don't know anything about his life I thought maybe he was very selfish or something.

Tyrion is definitely not a selfish character compared to most others. And compared to his family he is a fucking angel.

That's the good thing about Martin, very few characters are psychopatically evil. The Mountain and Ramsay come to mind. The rest are gray.

At any rate: Tyrion is a niceish guy in the books too. Impossible not to like him.

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omg, i started reading the books. WTF does this means?

Spoiler:


Sit, Ghost," Jon commanded. "That's it. Keep still." He looked up at the dwarf. "You can touch him now. He won't move until I tell him to. I've been training him."

"I see," Lannister said. He ruffled the snow-white fur between Ghost's ears an

d said, "Nice wolf."

"If I wasn't here, he'd tear out your throat," Jon said. It wasn't actually true yet, but it would be.





Don't even answer
I guess it means Ghost is not grown up yet, so he's not that dangerous. I don't remember the context though, but that makes sense.
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Old 6th-May-2014, 11:53 PM   #93
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lol, I thought he meant the actor! I always liked him, but since I don't know anything about his life I thought maybe he was very selfish or something.

Tyrion is definitely not a selfish character compared to most others. And compared to his family he is a fucking angel.
Wasn't sure, but I couldn't imagine how they could change a character that much for the show.

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That's the good thing about Martin, very few characters are psychopatically evil. The Mountain and Ramsay come to mind. The rest are gray.
I like that about the show too. The Mountain is Anti-Social, and Ramsay's just fucking scary and needs to be put down. I also think Lysa's batshit crazy. But it's only a small minority that seems so extreme. Even Malisandre has some nuance to her, although I really dislike her.

Of course, some characters are "grayer" than others....
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Old 7th-May-2014, 01:08 AM   #94
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I like that about the show too. The Mountain is Anti-Social, and Ramsay's just fucking scary and needs to be put down. I also think Lysa's batshit crazy. But it's only a small minority that seems so extreme. Even Malisandre has some nuance to her, although I really dislike her.

Of course, some characters are "grayer" than others....
Lysa is crazy and also disgusting. Her first scene, where her grown-up boy is suckling her tits...that's just nauseating.

I also don't like Cat. It's her fault that Robb lost the Karstarks. Things could've been different.

But it's also completely realistic. Mothers are known to do whatever is necessary to protect their children. It's just a biological instinct. Still: I was just so angry when she freed Jaime.
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Old 7th-May-2014, 01:17 AM   #95
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Lysa is crazy and also disgusting. Her first scene, where her grown-up boy is suckling her tits...that's just nauseating.
Yeah, she and crazy breastfeeder boy probably should be put down before they hurt someone else... because that's what is going to happen. On this show, the longer you let Crazy be in charge, the more crap Crazy starts throwing at the wall.

Then again, I trust Littlefinger to make sure they do not outlive their political usefulness.

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I also don't like Cat. It's her fault that Robb lost the Karstarks. Things could've been different.

But it's also completely realistic. Mothers are known to do whatever is necessary to protect their children. It's just a biological instinct. Still: I was just so angry when she freed Jaime.
Well, I was too... but I still liked Caitlyn. She was a great character, and she did her best to hold things together when everything went to hell in Season #1. She had five kids scattered to the five winds, and it was imperative to her (as you suggest) to bring them home again while she still could. Yet, part of it is her personality; I might want to protect my children, but letting her one bartering chip go through the wilderness, in hopes that two of her children will be returned safely? She didn't even know if the kids were there, and as it turns out, her ploy did nothing whatsoever to impact either of them. From a rational standpoint, I saw that plan as a poor one in terms of likely payoff.

Yes, I was mad at her for letting Jaime go... that was not a good call on her part, in terms of political strategy... but on the other hand, let's not blame the Karstarks on her. She might have put him in that situation, but Robb had an option to just toss the guy in the brig and use him as political leverage (it totally would have worked, totally would have made sense, totally would have preserved his army).... and EVERYONE -- male and female -- counseled him to do just that.

But no, Robb has to "go all Ned" on everyone and put his idealism above political strategy; if he had heeded everyone else's advice, he would not have needed Frey's army, leading him into that particular encounter where his breaking his vow to Frey had staying power. Instead, a conjunction of errors on his part led to that episode.
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Old 7th-May-2014, 01:18 AM   #96
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Uhhhh... what? Is that something you're layering in from the book? Because that's not how he consistently comes across at all in the show; his attitude is not self-absorbed -- he's easily the most "other-centered" of everyone in his family and probably of everyone on the show. he also doesn't seem to want to be king at all, unlike many of the other characters. maybe the book was different...?
Oh, I'm sorry, I meant Peter Baelish. LOL

No, I love Tyrion's character.
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Old 7th-May-2014, 01:18 AM   #97
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Freeing Jamie was a good decision that saved many lives. It may have been the demise of her own family but what kind of idiots think they're going to fight a war of independence against the nation that stands as their only retreat from the biggest threat the world has ever seen?
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Old 7th-May-2014, 01:52 AM   #98
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Yeah, she and crazy breastfeeder boy probably should be put down before they hurt someone else... because that's what is going to happen. On this show, the longer you let Crazy be in charge, the more crap Crazy starts throwing at the wall.

Then again, I trust Littlefinger to make sure they do not outlive their political usefulness.



Well, I was too... but I still liked Caitlyn. She was a great character, and she did her best to hold things together when everything went to hell in Season #1. She had five kids scattered to the five winds, and it was imperative to her (as you suggest) to bring them home again while she still could. Yet, part of it is her personality; I might want to protect my children, but letting her one bartering chip go through the wilderness, in hopes that two of her children will be returned safely? She didn't even know if the kids were there, and as it turns out, her ploy did nothing whatsoever to impact either of them. From a rational standpoint, I saw that plan as a poor one in terms of likely payoff.
Sure, it's definitely irrational. But that's the point: an extremely tiny chance of saving her daughters is worth more to her than all the lives in the seven kingdoms. Are you sure you could be as rational as you say?

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Yes, I was mad at her for letting Jaime go... that was not a good call on her part, in terms of political strategy... but on the other hand, let's not blame the Karstarks on her. She might have put him in that situation, but Robb had an option to just toss the guy in the brig and use him as political leverage (it totally would have worked, totally would have made sense, totally would have preserved his army).... and EVERYONE -- male and female -- counseled him to do just that.

But no, Robb has to "go all Ned" on everyone and put his idealism above political strategy; if he had heeded everyone else's advice, he would not have needed Frey's army, leading him into that particular encounter where his breaking his vow to Frey had staying power. Instead, a conjunction of errors on his part led to that episode.
Yes, I thought about it. Robb's decisions were all wrong. Both marrying the girl and executing Karstark. But he would've looked like a coward in front of his entire army: it's not just a macho or honour thing, it just sucks if you give the image that anyone can defy you and there will be no consequences. In that position, I would've cut his right hand or something. Show a message and keep the army. A more symbolic one might be cutting his manhood, so he won't lose any more sons. But that's too harsh, it would've been the same or worse than killing him.

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Freeing Jamie was a good decision that saved many lives. It may have been the demise of her own family but what kind of idiots think they're going to fight a war of independence against the nation that stands as their only retreat from the biggest threat the world has ever seen?
I don't follow you.

First, how is it a good decision if it's your family's demise? Second, Robb doesn't know there's a giant undead army coming from the north. Almost no one does, actually, otherwise many things would've been different.
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Old 13th-May-2014, 05:03 PM   #99
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S4E6: Shit just got real.



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Sure, it's definitely irrational. But that's the point: an extremely tiny chance of saving her daughters is worth more to her than all the lives in the seven kingdoms. Are you sure you could be as rational as you say?
More rational in terms of coming up with a plan beside "release the son of the family that murdered my husband so that, if he even SURVIVES to reach the capital, they MIGHT release my daughters who might not even BE THERE anymore?" Seriously? You think all moms HAVE to be that irrational?

Look, is there any reason to think Caitlyn's plan even had a chance to work? There were so many holes, and she was giving up the ONLY bit of power she had. They already killed her husband after he pled clemency. Why would they be inclined to let her daughters go just because she releases Jaime ahead of time?

I would have at least confirmed that my daughters were in King's Landing.

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Yes, I thought about it. Robb's decisions were all wrong. Both marrying the girl and executing Karstark. But he would've looked like a coward in front of his entire army: it's not just a macho or honour thing, it just sucks if you give the image that anyone can defy you and there will be no consequences. In that position, I would've cut his right hand or something. Show a message and keep the army. A more symbolic one might be cutting his manhood, so he won't lose any more sons. But that's too harsh, it would've been the same or worse than killing him.
You could simply put him in the brig and say that you are postponing judgment until the war is over.

But seriously, Caitlyn let Jaime Lannister go, so Robb's already on the block for that. His men already felt like he was weak, if they were going to feel that way; his own MOTHER (a woman) defied him. If he had supported Karstark's decision after the fact, he might have even saved face; he would have just been salvaging a bad situation and could even have made the same argument you just did about motherhood leading one to dumb decisions (which is insulting, but he could have played it that way)

We're not talking about "picking a right answer here," we're picking the "least bad" answer. I think Robb would have been better off risking that some of his men think him weak by not killing Karstark for doing nothing more than compensating his family for what Robb's mom ALREADY DID, than by beheading Karstark after knowing with a high degree of certainty half of his army would defect. I'm not even sure how you can argue otherwise. Potentially grumbly troops vs an almost certain 50% defection rate? Is there really a question there?

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... Second, Robb doesn't know there's a giant undead army coming from the north. Almost no one does, actually, otherwise many things would've been different.
I agree with you there. I don't think they really understand the extent of their peril yet. The Wall is there. It's come out more in Season 4, and I think both Tywin and Stannis are getting an idea that bad things are happening up north.
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Old 13th-May-2014, 08:14 PM   #100
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I agree with you on all topics, in fact. I was just trying to understand why would Robb or Catelyn (not Caitlyn) do what they did.

I understand how the motherhood argument is offensive though, but I'm convinced that most mothers are more likely to be irrational about protecting their children than fathers. Which isn't to say that many fathers can't be irrational about such topics, or that mothers can't be rational. Do you disagree with that?
I think Adaire made a similar point about motherhood a while back.

As purely anecdotal evidence, I had this same discussion with my father (he is a fan. yes, he is really cool), and he told me he can definitely picture most mothers he knows, including mine, making such a decision.
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