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Old 21st-November-2016, 11:16 AM   #1
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Default MBTI: Donald J. Trump

I can't believe no one's made a topic about this.



My take: ENTP.

It fits- an extroverted charmer but has an introverted, private processing, but at the same time he's unable (or seems to be unable) to exert sentimentality.

Ne-dom, Ti-aux, Fe-tert, Si-inf

(the Fe just sweeps into it all, the other functions)

edit: oh woops wrong subsection.
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Old 21st-November-2016, 11:25 AM   #2
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

Surely he'd have to be a J?
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Old 21st-November-2016, 12:03 PM   #3
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

Whenever I have seen him talk, I would go with ESTJ
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Old 21st-November-2016, 12:22 PM   #4
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artsu Tharaz View Post
Surely he'd have to be a J?
I would disagree with him having J because he leaves his statements as open ended; as suggestions.

I think the perspective of Judging comes from his directives on the shows like the Apprentice, but in reality.. I would think he orders (or commands) once he's been able to charm and win the person to his side first. Either that or he goes off on provocative insults (e.g. 'you're fired')- all which is defined by the personality trait of an ENTP.

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Whenever I have seen him talk, I would go with ESTJ
Well taking a look at the cognitive function order, an ESTJ is Te-Si-Ne-Fi.

I think the line of thinking behind your post is "he's extroverted, he "says it like it is", and the 'directiveness' (I refer to this in the post above), but Te is more of a commanding feature, something a solider or a team athlete would have.

(I'm not entirely sure if he even has an ounce of Si in his being either, I mean at least in an extroverted manner, anyway.)

[I'm being lazy right now, but Si is basically introverted sensing- the search function is helpful. ^^]
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Old 21st-November-2016, 05:33 PM   #5
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

I just don't see the point. It's too easy to rationalize things in MBTI and Trump is quite the character.

But good luck.
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Old 21st-November-2016, 07:21 PM   #6
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

Mmm.

ENTP 8w7 SP/SO

Could be likely.
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Old 21st-November-2016, 09:49 PM   #7
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

Cripes. I've dealt with the man intermittently as a journalist since the early 1980s, I'm not sure how "charmer" comes into it.

And he doesn't leave his statements open ended to avoid judgment, he does it to avoid culpability. Very, very often his statements are suggestive, not definitive, leading those listening to assume that their own hopes are what he's actually saying. "Confirmation bias enabled by vagueness."

Personality typing kind of falls by the wayside when you're dealing with someone who has a public demeanour and a private one as well. Clinton offered the same difficulties for typing.

You really can't predict anything about this guy or analyze him. Just ponder, for a moment, that the man who said he'd destroy ISIS is instead waging war on a Broadway theater while in the middle of picking his cabinet. Can we say "Squirrel!!!"

I'm quite sure that, if we survive his administration, we'll look back on the next couple of years as wildly entertaining.
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Old 30th-November-2016, 10:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

ESTP or ESFP.

Very hasty decision making because of suggestive inferior N. Understands, like a businessman, that you serve your customers and therefore listens customers (for lack Ni).
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Old 11th-December-2016, 04:54 PM   #9
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

Lol thread. ESTP only
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Old 11th-December-2016, 05:09 PM   #10
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

ENTJ
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Old 11th-December-2016, 10:46 PM   #11
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

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ENTJ
This.
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Old 12th-December-2016, 02:22 AM   #12
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

INTJ - all according to his master plan

everyone is giving a different typing, so I might as well too.
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Old 12th-December-2016, 12:37 PM   #13
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

He's not fucking Ni or Ne for Christ'sake people get with it
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Old 12th-December-2016, 02:53 PM   #14
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTP lurker View Post
ESTP or ESFP.

Very hasty decision making because of suggestive inferior N. Understands, like a businessman, that you serve your customers and therefore listens customers (for lack Ni).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manipulator View Post
Lol thread. ESTP only
Quote:
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He's not fucking Ni or Ne for Christ'sake people get with it
Agreed. He's not an N. He has trouble with abstractions and becomes almost incoherent.

Not a J either. He's as freewheeling and open-ended as they came. If you've ever worked with an ESTJ, practical/rational consistency and responsibility are big deals. Trump is a deal-maker and changes to accommodate the situation, not vice versa.
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Old 12th-December-2016, 03:35 PM   #15
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

My N assessment was based purely on the fact I never see him offer any details, just shoddy abstractions.. but I have never known an ENTP to be as fucking dopey or incompetent as him.

ESTP??
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Old 12th-December-2016, 03:38 PM   #16
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

Ti is to dispassionate to be trump.
Te is more of the "lets get things done" sort of function.
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Old 12th-December-2016, 03:48 PM   #17
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reluctantly View Post
INTJ - all according to his master plan

everyone is giving a different typing, so I might as well too.
OK - I vote ENFP. Just to be different.
No one else will be betting on that.
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Old 12th-December-2016, 06:30 PM   #18
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

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OK - I vote ENFP. Just to be different.
No one else will be betting on that.
Yah! Trump's an advocate! ENFP ALL THE WAY THEN
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Old 12th-December-2016, 07:52 PM   #19
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

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Yah! Trump's an advocate! ENFP ALL THE WAY THEN
Argument resolved.
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Old 14th-December-2016, 10:34 AM   #20
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

Hmm after reviewing what an Se-dom was compared to an Ne-dom, ESTP does seem more persuasive. (Not exactly what I had in mind for an ESTP, but it does seems to work).
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Old 14th-December-2016, 10:42 AM   #21
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

INFP. Clearly he has strong internal values. Fi, followed up with wild ideas, Ne. Supported by poor facts Si and finished with external logic Te.
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Old 14th-December-2016, 10:49 AM   #22
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

E is probably a given here.
S or N? Not totally certain but he is very vague with details
T is another given
P because, well, see Jenny's comment above. Plus fleeting through business idea after business idea.

ESTP does sound closest if you just read the description of them. But I wouldn't 100% rule out ENTP either.
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Old 14th-December-2016, 05:43 PM   #23
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump










http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...uring-sex.html
Ivana Trump’s assertion of “rape” came in a deposition—part of the early ’90s divorce case between the Trumps, and revealed in the 1993 book Lost Tycoon: The Many Lives of Donald J. Trump.

The book, by former Texas Monthly and Newsweek reporter Harry Hurt III, described a harrowing scene. After a painful scalp reduction surgery to remove a bald spot, Donald Trump confronted his then-wife, who had previously used the same plastic surgeon.
“Your fucking doctor has ruined me!” Trump cried.

What followed was a “violent assault,” according to Lost Tycoon. Donald held back Ivana’s arms and began to pull out fistfuls of hair from her scalp, as if to mirror the pain he felt from his own operation. He tore off her clothes and unzipped his pants.
“Then he jams his penis inside her for the first time in more than sixteen months. Ivana is terrified… It is a violent assault,” Hurt writes. “According to versions she repeats to some of her closest confidantes, ‘he raped me.’”

Following the incident, Ivana ran upstairs, hid behind a locked door, and remained there “crying for the rest of night.” When she returned to the master bedroom in the morning, he was there.

“As she looks in horror at the ripped-out hair scattered all over the bed, he glares at her and asks with menacing casualness: ‘Does it hurt?’” Hurt writes.

Donald Trump has previously denied the allegation. In the book, he denies having had the scalp reduction surgery.

“It’s obviously false,” Donald Trump said of the accusation in 1993, according to Newsday. “It’s incorrect and done by a guy without much talent… He is a guy that is an unattractive guy who is a vindictive and jealous person.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcis...ality_disorder
Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a long-term pattern of abnormal behavior characterized by exaggerated feelings of self-importance, an excessive need for admiration, and a lack of understanding of others' feelings.[4][5] People affected by it often spend a lot of time thinking about achieving power or success, or about their appearance. They often take advantage of the people around them. The behavior typically begins by early adulthood, and occurs across a variety of situations.


I mean, normally diagnosing people with personality disorders can be pretty sketch, but pretty sure he's a narcissist. I'm pretty sure that's his type. pretty sure gais, pretty sure. I mean, I'm pretty sure. And I think Donald Trump would approve that I keep repeating myself to make it sound more true.
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Old 14th-December-2016, 06:21 PM   #24
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

The trouble is that Narcissists are rarely as successful as they think they are. Their overly inflated sense of self means that they overly inflate their achievements and have a habit of expecting success without effort. Clearly, he is extremely successful and isn't overly inflating that fact.
Anti-socials, on the other hand, are convinced of their own superiority. They are experts in manipulating weak minds, are extremely impulsive and very uncaring of the damage they leave in their wake. They often do end up quite successful in the business world. Could be argued...
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Old 14th-December-2016, 06:50 PM   #25
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

Reich coined the term "Phallic Narcissistic" to denote the Ennea type Eight.

Low functioning Ennea Eights typically embody a number of the criteria of psychopathy, tho not all, they are most likely to be assessed as sociopathic.

Low functioning male 8's are typically unapologetically misogynistic.. having little respect for the female aspect in anyway shape or form (other than for the means of gratification)
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Old 14th-December-2016, 08:53 PM   #26
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rixus View Post
The trouble is that Narcissists are rarely as successful as they think they are. Their overly inflated sense of self means that they overly inflate their achievements and have a habit of expecting success without effort. Clearly, he is extremely successful and isn't overly inflating that fact.
Anti-socials, on the other hand, are convinced of their own superiority. They are experts in manipulating weak minds, are extremely impulsive and very uncaring of the damage they leave in their wake. They often do end up quite successful in the business world. Could be argued...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.cb7f06384386

Fact Check: Has Trump declared bankruptcy four or six times?

Trump’s companies have filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, which means a company can remain in business while wiping away many of its debts. The bankruptcy court ultimately approves a corporate budget and a plan to repay remaining debts; often shareholders lose much of their equity.

Trump’s Taj Mahal opened in April 1990 in Atlantic City, but six months later, “defaulted on interest payments to bondholders as his finances went into a tailspin,” The Washington Post’s Robert O’Harrow found. In July 1991, Trump’s Taj Mahal filed for bankruptcy. He could not keep up with debts on two other Atlantic City casinos, and those two properties declared bankruptcy in 1992. A fourth property, the Plaza Hotel in New York, declared bankruptcy in 1992 after amassing debt.

PolitiFact uncovered two more bankruptcies filed after 1992, totaling six. Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts filed for bankruptcy again in 2004, after accruing about $1.8 billion in debt. Trump Entertainment Resorts also declared bankruptcy in 2009, after being hit hard during the 2008 recession.

Why the discrepancy? Perhaps this will give us an idea: Trump told Washington Post reporters that he counted the first three bankruptcies as just one.
Is he successful? Sounds like he uses bankruptcy as a normal part of business, footing the loss to his shareholders and anyone else he can, while getting to stay in business until he makes a profit. Normally that sort of thing is what a con-artist would do, but he managed to find a legal way to con people and profit without punity.
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Old 14th-December-2016, 08:59 PM   #27
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reluctantly View Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.cb7f06384386

Fact Check: Has Trump declared bankruptcy four or six times?

Trump’s companies have filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, which means a company can remain in business while wiping away many of its debts. The bankruptcy court ultimately approves a corporate budget and a plan to repay remaining debts; often shareholders lose much of their equity.

Trump’s Taj Mahal opened in April 1990 in Atlantic City, but six months later, “defaulted on interest payments to bondholders as his finances went into a tailspin,” The Washington Post’s Robert O’Harrow found. In July 1991, Trump’s Taj Mahal filed for bankruptcy. He could not keep up with debts on two other Atlantic City casinos, and those two properties declared bankruptcy in 1992. A fourth property, the Plaza Hotel in New York, declared bankruptcy in 1992 after amassing debt.

PolitiFact uncovered two more bankruptcies filed after 1992, totaling six. Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts filed for bankruptcy again in 2004, after accruing about $1.8 billion in debt. Trump Entertainment Resorts also declared bankruptcy in 2009, after being hit hard during the 2008 recession.

Why the discrepancy? Perhaps this will give us an idea: Trump told Washington Post reporters that he counted the first three bankruptcies as just one.
Is he successful? Sounds like he uses bankruptcy as a normal part of business, footing the loss to his shareholders and anyone else he can, while getting to stay in business until he makes a profit. Normally that sort of thing is what a con-artist would do, but he managed to find a legal way to con people and profit without punity.
But by successful, I mean he has succeeded in making himself extremely rich whilst not caring about the damage he has caused in his wake.
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Old 14th-December-2016, 09:39 PM   #28
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

I guess I'm confused then, why must a narcissist be lazy and unsuccessful? Maybe that's true sometimes, but from what I've read, the primary trait of being a narcissist is preoccupation with their self-image and the use of other people as means to prove that image. They will try very hard to achieve the status and adulation they feel they deserve, sometimes working tirelessly to make that a reality and stepping on anyone that gets in the way.
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Old 14th-December-2016, 09:51 PM   #29
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

I mean this is a guy that can't take SNL making fun of him or a broadway play making a political statement to his VP in the audience. He's probably about to become President of the United States and he's so concerned with what anyone in the media says about him. It's just weird.

you know, after he won the vote, he even took all the prominent media and tried to shame them for not seeing him in a positive light. http://truthfeed.com/breaking-trump-...r-place/37163/
I mean wow. What a fragile ego.
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Old 14th-December-2016, 09:51 PM   #30
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

http://www.tobealpha.com/alpha-male-characteristics/

Quote:
Alpha Male Characteristics
You can become alpha. But first you need to know what an alpha male is.

The problem most men and women that want to be alpha face is a lack of knowledge and guidance on the traits and characteristics necessary to become alpha.

Here we simplify everything for you with guidelines to being alpha.

What Are Alpha Male Characteristics?

Confident
Alpha males know they are the shit. Whether they are or not to someone else doesn’t really matter. Alpha males believe in themselves and aren’t afraid to show it physically, vocally or through action and thoughts.

When’s the last time you saw an alpha male that was afraid or second guessing themselves? Usually they just go for it because they are that confident.

But If they Fail…

Have Intangibles (Mentally Tough)
When I say intangibles, I’m talking about the right mentality. Alphas always think they are a winner. Sure they might fail once in awhile, but they get over it really fast and just move on.

They know that they will eventually succeed if they keep trying. Alpha males do not give up just because they failed once

Competitive
Alpha males don’t like to lose. They want to win.

They don’t just want to win, they want to beat the hell out of you and make you remember they won.
Everything they do in life is a competition. They want to be the best. Competition drives them. But they don’t do it to show off. It’s because they truly believe they should be winning all the time.
Make competition your friend. It will make you better in all parts of your life.

Alpha Males Have Presence
Size matters.

But not in the sense that you just get lucky if you’re born fat or tall. You can still look like a beta male if you don’t have presence. Presence is what people turn and look at when an alpha walks in the door. It’s the larger than life figure that stands before you.

Alphas make themselves bigger and give themselves presence – it comes from body language, vocals, how they carry themselves.

Have Strong Body Language
Alphas know what it means to not only be confident but to show confidence. Its all in the body language.

How they stand.
How they walk.
What they look at.
Where there hands are.
Alpha males have alpha male body language (if you didn’t know, now you know – click on the link!).

Walk Like The Shit
Alpha males have swagger. They have a pep in their step. They don’t walk like an average man. They walk with meaning. They walk like they are in control and know where they are going.

Alpha males walk slow but with strong steps. Unlike a beta male who just walks fast or uses a walk to get from point A to point B, an alpha male knows his walk can make him stand out.

Position Themselves
Alpha males understand something many other people do not, which is that the alpha is always in a powerful position.

What does this mean?

It means an alpha male knows where to stand and be seated to be in a powerful position. Ever wonder why the head of the table sits at the head of the table? Or a leader sits in the middle of a table? Alpha males do. They also know where to stand in a group setting to be in control.

Alpha males not only know where to sit and stand but they understand that to be taken seriously and be in a dominant position, they need to be closest to resources that other people want.

Dominant
Alpha males take control. They are dominant. They tell people what to do. They are direct. They take over situations when necessary. Alpha males are seen as powerful. They are the king of the mountain.

Take Chances
Alpha males are risk takers. They don’t stay within their comfort zone. This is why they are seen as elite.

Alpha males know that in order to have something they don’t have, they need to go get it. People always wonder why someone has something they don’t have. Is it luck? Was it given to them? Not necessarily. Sometimes it’s called, just being alpha.

Alpha Males Get The Girl
While beta males are oogling and gaga-ing over girls or making excuses about why they aren’t going to talk to her. An Alpha male steps up and gets the girl. Alphas are not afraid to express their sexuality. They understand their role as a man. They get the girl. And if they don’t get the girl, they’ll try again.

Vocal and Loud
Alpha males have solid voices. It could be deep, it could not be. But it usually is deep. All that matters is that when they talk, they are heard.

Alphas not only talk loud enough for everyone to hear them but they talk because they know what they are talking about. If an alpha male has something to say, he will say it.

Strong Eye Contact
Alpha males are not afraid to look other people in the eyes. They are not afraid to look at people in general.

They don’t hide the fact that they are looking at someone like a beta male does. Alphas understand that looking someone in the eyes shows confidence and dominance.

Alpha males know the right amount of eye contact to use and how to use it correctly.

Aren’t Afraid To Get Physical
Alphas are okay with touching. This can be as simple as a pat on the back, a firm hand shake or a chest bump (yea I said it).

But even more so, alpha males are very comfortable getting physical with the opposite sex. They are willing to show how they feel about others through touch. Alphas know their limits with physical contact but are not afraid to express themselves with it.

Calm Under Pressure
Alphas don’t over react or get emotional. Even if they have concerns or are freaking out, they rarely show weakness to others. They’ll put on a good front.

For the most part, alpha males will remain calm and rational in all situations. They understand that a leader does not show weakness.

Know How To Dress
Looking the part of an alpha male is important. Fashion plays an important role in perception.

If you dress like a clown, it’s likely you won’t get the respect you deserve as an alpha male. Alpha males understand their audience and what appeals to them. Then create a style based on that.

Take an interest in fashion, it separates the men from the boys.

Strong
You are what you eat. You are what you lift. You are what you feel. Alpha males know being in shape can make your life a lot easier.

People, including women, are attracted to a physically fit man. They like a man that is strong and can protect them. It’s never too late to start. Get in shape. Be fit. You’ll be seen as more masculine and physically dominating.

Non-reactive
Alpha males rarely get emotional like beta males.

Beta males complain about life not being fair, whine about petty things, snap at people when they don’t get their way, and run away or back down when confronted by someone else.

Alpha males are level minded and stick to their convictions when challenged.
If something doesn’t go right, Alpha males move on. They try again. If someone doesn’t like them. They don’t care. It’s a part of life.
Learn to be non-reactive. Most of the things you encounter in life are not that big of a deal.

Do Not Need External Validation
Alpha males are not out to get approval from others.

They live in their own world and have their own ideas of right and wrong. They do what makes them happy, not what makes other people happy. Happiness comes from within, not from others. Once you learn and accept this, your life will be more alpha.

Not Afraid to Stand Out
Alphas are okay being different. This means dressing how you want to dress. Saying what you want to say. Doing what you want to do.

Alphas do not follow the herd mentality of having to fit in. They aren’t afraid to rock the boat. Alphas do what they want because they can. And so can you.

Saying No
Alpha males have the power to say no. Beta males are afraid of the consequences of saying no. Having the power to say no is one of the most alpha things you can do for yourself.

Do Not Try To Be Everyone’s Friend
There’s truth to the saying “you can’t make everyone happy.” If you’re out to be everyone’s friend it will be hard to be a leader or an alpha male. Alphas do what’s right and sometimes that involves making tough decisions that some people are not happy with.

Perseverance
Above all else, alpha males don’t give up. They work hard. They continue to try until they succeed.

When the tough gets going, so does an alpha male.

An alpha male has thick skin and understands that pain is temporary and glory is forever.

Being Alpha

By building a solid framework to work off of, you can become alpha. Don’t only read the characteristics of an alpha male but find out what you need to work on and improve on that.

You might have more to work on than others. It doesn’t matter where you start, it’s where you finish.

Use the resources at To be Alpha to be the man you want to be.
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Old 14th-December-2016, 10:52 PM   #31
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Is he successful?
He da president.
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Old 15th-December-2016, 02:54 AM   #32
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...yeah, that's true. But not sure I'd call it a success with all the protests and Republican electors talking about possibly voting for someone else. From what I've been reading, some electors have gotten upwards of 75,000 personal pleas to vote someone else. Trump's created a large divide. But he's going to be Pres, for better or worse. I guess I should stop thinking and reading about it all and do something more productive.
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Old 15th-December-2016, 05:24 AM   #33
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ESTP or ESFP.

Very hasty decision making because of suggestive inferior N. Understands, like a businessman, that you serve your customers and therefore listens customers (for lack Ni).
I would agree with Trump being an Se dom. A very good salesman.He sold himself to the American public, even if it was skeptical of him. He's kind of like a televangelist or used car salesman or demagogue who spouts ridiculous nonsense with an eye to achieving more money and power. I doubt he's very competent or knowledgeable, he was rescued from bankruptcy by moneylenders who regarded him as a commercial brand name. His Presidency will probably end up being a situation comedy.
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Old 15th-December-2016, 11:46 AM   #34
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Reich coined the term "Phallic Narcissistic" to denote the Ennea type Eight.

Low functioning Ennea Eights typically embody a number of the criteria of psychopathy, tho not all, they are most likely to be assessed as sociopathic.

Low functioning male 8's are typically unapologetically misogynistic.. having little respect for the female aspect in anyway shape or form (other than for the means of gratification)
Well, you're not wrong. Trump is listed as a famous type 8.
I can definitely imagine less healthy type-8's being vulnerable to anti-social and narcissistic personality disorders. For very high wing 8's I wouldn't be surprised if they were quite vulnerable to borderline personality disorder as well; given the instinctive nature, aggressive reactions and habit of pushing people away to avoid exposing any emotional vulnerability along with a fear of being controlled.

That fear of being controlled would lead type-8 to escalate every argument in a in relationships to the point where a simple disagreement seems like a battle to end all battles; and this can also be a common trait of BPD.

Conversely, 5s like myself I would probably expect to be more vulnerable to the more eccentric or anxious personality disorder clusters.

(I've now done my homework on the subject of enneagrams.)

It seems as though Enneagrams differ from MBTI tests. The MBTI focuses more on the way your brain processes information and allows us to understand and play to our strengths while overcoming and countering our weaknesses - which is particularly a big thing for INTP's as we have all but limitless potential which is often unrealised. The ennea test, it seems to me, seems more a test of what your inner fear is. And the wings (if I understand it correctly) are how far we've come in adapting to those fears. It's an interesting concept that I'm only just scratching the surface of.
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Old 15th-December-2016, 12:27 PM   #35
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I guess I'm confused then, why must a narcissist be lazy and unsuccessful? Maybe that's true sometimes, but from what I've read, the primary trait of being a narcissist is preoccupation with their self-image and the use of other people as means to prove that image. They will try very hard to achieve the status and adulation they feel they deserve, sometimes working tirelessly to make that a reality and stepping on anyone that gets in the way.
I wouldn't say narcissists are lazy, as such. They lack finesses. Like they have one tool and it's a hammer. And if that hammer doesn't work, hit it again and hit it harder. The narcissist is delusional - they have convinced themselves of their superiority because they believe on some level that they are inadequate (which they can't admit even to themselves). They will sit there and believe that their job on a factory line is impressive because they're the best and most productive (when they're not). The narcissist is, in my experience, quite pathetic. I can't imagine a narcissist getting as far as Trump because they can't learn from their actions - they can't accept responsibility for anything because that would disprove the superiority they've convinced themselves of.

Anti-socials on the other hand can try any trick in the book to achieve their goals. Because they just don't care what harm they do. They know they're superior and don't really need to prove it - you will fall in line or you will be made to by any means necessary. Damage done to all those around him is inconsequential as they are just human, because he is something else. Something superior and shouldn't need to be bound my morality, and will find a way around the law. (Or so the anti-social believes). Rather than it simply being desire to prove that superiorty they've convinced themselves of, the anti-social enjoys inflicting pain and controlling everything in the same way you would if you were playing a computer game - it's funny to beat up the civilians and set the sheep on fire because they aren't real; and neither are people to the anti-social. The world is their RPG to win by any means they deem necessary.
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Old 15th-December-2016, 01:02 PM   #36
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Well, you're not wrong. Trump is listed as a famous type 8.
I can definitely imagine less healthy type-8's being vulnerable to anti-social and narcissistic personality disorders. For very high wing 8's I wouldn't be surprised if they were quite vulnerable to borderline personality disorder as well; given the instinctive nature, aggressive reactions and habit of pushing people away to avoid exposing any emotional vulnerability along with a fear of being controlled.

That fear of being controlled would lead type-8 to escalate every argument in a in relationships to the point where a simple disagreement seems like a battle to end all battles; and this can also be a common trait of BPD.

Conversely, 5s like myself I would probably expect to be more vulnerable to the more eccentric or anxious personality disorder clusters.

(I've now done my homework on the subject of enneagrams.)

It seems as though Enneagrams differ from MBTI tests. The MBTI focuses more on the way your brain processes information and allows us to understand and play to our strengths while overcoming and countering our weaknesses - which is particularly a big thing for INTP's as we have all but limitless potential which is often unrealised. The ennea test, it seems to me, seems more a test of what your inner fear is. And the wings (if I understand it correctly) are how far we've come in adapting to those fears. It's an interesting concept that I'm only just scratching the surface of.
Ha... well, I thought I had mental issues up until I discovered the enneagram, I was relieved when I discovered that I do have some "mental" issues.. but they are tangible, and that they can be understood and over come... they are not some abstract diagnosis about something I can't understand or bring under my control..

Who the fuck needs a therapist when you have the enneagram? Well.. I can't speak for anyone else obviously, but the enneagram has truly been a phenomenal tool for me to use.
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Old 15th-December-2016, 01:12 PM   #37
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Ha... well, I thought I had mental issues up until I discovered the enneagram, I was relieved when I discovered that I do have some "mental" issues.. but they are tangible, and that they can be understood and over come... they are not some abstract diagnosis about something I can't understand or bring under my control..

Who the fuck needs a therapist when you have the enneagram? Well.. I can't speak for anyone else obviously, but the enneagram has truly been a phenomenal tool for me to use.
I can imagine it would be. I can think of a couple of people who could have benefited from a better understanding of themselves if they had understood they were type 8's. And I didn't say you had mental issues; I said which issues I could see your type being susceptible to.

Obviously I can't say how accurate the description is for you - I don't know you well enough to know that yet. The description of mine does have some home truths in it; but I think it's only a part of the picture.

I do find it interesting how both 5s and 8s often develop the same ability to shittheir emotions off from the world as a defensive mechanism. I don't see many people who actually do that.

Personally, I always thought I was mentally disturbed until I found out about MBTI's. I'm relieved I never have to see any therapist now - don't want someone poking around in my brain. It's private.
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Old 15th-December-2016, 01:22 PM   #38
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And I didn't say you had mental issues
I didn't say you did.

That will be your 6 wing habit of assuming and projecting.
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Old 15th-December-2016, 01:33 PM   #39
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I didn't say you did.

That will be your 6 wing habit of assuming and projecting.
Lol. I do that a lot. Probably noticed. And I did score moderately high on the 4 wing.
But I'm certain I was a 5w7 wing a few years ago - so call it an improvement.
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Old 15th-December-2016, 01:39 PM   #40
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No such thing as a 5w7, you should take another look at wing theory.
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Old 15th-December-2016, 01:42 PM   #41
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I was reading development levels. Not the same? Like I said, I'm only just getting to understand this concept. Level 6 does ring true. As does 4, so I thought it was the same thing. Further reading necessary.
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Old 15th-December-2016, 01:51 PM   #42
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Levels of development are separate to wings.

Wings are the numbers either side of your main type. If your main type is 5 your wing will either be 4 or 6. Depending on your preferences, you could lean on both.

So you could hypothetically resemble both 5w4 and 5w6.

In further character development you'd be working on having access to all enneagram types, although you would never deviate from your core.

In Tri Type theory it's suggested that we have core preferences in each Triad, which as a whole plot your "Tri Type".

I think these theories are onto something, although not the complete picture.

Separate to wing theory are the "levels of development"

Which is mainly focused on your core anyway, and doesn't really go into details of your wings.

Levels of development pretty much relate to maturity , and mental and emotional health of the individual.

I'm on a phone and the details escape me off the top of my head...
But by levels of development that I recall (ranging from 6-9 by various theories) Trump would be in the Lower rung.

And a Lower rung Eight is .. well, Trump.

A higher functioning Eight would be like Martin Luther King jr.

I myself am typically Middle rung, although I don't think some of our behaviours so are so conveniently categorised.

Trump's wing, 8w7.
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Old 15th-December-2016, 02:05 PM   #43
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

I think I perhaps should have read the introductory page first. I get it now.
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Old 15th-December-2016, 02:27 PM   #44
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Who the fuck needs a therapist when you have the enneagram? Well.. I can't speak for anyone else obviously, but the enneagram has truly been a phenomenal tool for me to use.
How has that worked out? Do you find that you've been able to develop yourself as a result of your understanding of it?

I'm not sure it'll be that useful to me - not as much as understanding my MBTI is, anyway. Which is, of course, why I'm here.
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Old 16th-December-2016, 05:19 AM   #45
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I wouldn't say narcissists are lazy, as such. They lack finesses. Like they have one tool and it's a hammer. And if that hammer doesn't work, hit it again and hit it harder. The narcissist is delusional - they have convinced themselves of their superiority because they believe on some level that they are inadequate (which they can't admit even to themselves). They will sit there and believe that their job on a factory line is impressive because they're the best and most productive (when they're not). The narcissist is, in my experience, quite pathetic. I can't imagine a narcissist getting as far as Trump because they can't learn from their actions - they can't accept responsibility for anything because that would disprove the superiority they've convinced themselves of.
k, but this isn't really in the clinical description of narcissism. A narcissist can be delusional and yet still be successful in say business or politics. Their problems are often described in the interpersonal level where they abuse people, while career-wise they can be relatively successful, especially if their success depends on using other people. So not saying you are wrong, but it's not what my point is about Trump's narcissism.

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Anti-socials on the other hand can try any trick in the book to achieve their goals. Because they just don't care what harm they do. They know they're superior and don't really need to prove it - you will fall in line or you will be made to by any means necessary. Damage done to all those around him is inconsequential as they are just human, because he is something else. Something superior and shouldn't need to be bound my morality, and will find a way around the law. (Or so the anti-social believes). Rather than it simply being desire to prove that superiorty they've convinced themselves of, the anti-social enjoys inflicting pain and controlling everything in the same way you would if you were playing a computer game - it's funny to beat up the civilians and set the sheep on fire because they aren't real; and neither are people to the anti-social. The world is their RPG to win by any means they deem necessary.
I agree that Trump is very power hungry and willing to try almost anything to achieve his goals, but I'm not sure that means he enjoys inflicting pain or hurting people. Maybe you're right and he's really just APD and he masks that by trying to be likeable, but he also seems to be heavily image conscious, playing the celebrity, as if he's trying to prove he is larger than life. Come to think of it, maybe Sinny is on to something with the "phallic narcissist".
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Old 16th-December-2016, 01:33 PM   #46
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Phallic narcissism

Wilhelm Reich first identified the phallic narcissistic personality type as someone with an excessively inflated self-image. The individual tends to be an elitist, a “social climber,” admiration seeking, self-promoting, bragging and empowered by social success. Phallic characters are people whose behaviors are reckless, determined and self-assured. Phallic narcissists are intensely vain and personally sensitive revealing that these people still have their narcissistic needs–for which they overcompensate.
http://thenarcissisticlife.com/subtypes-of-narcissism/

Whilst I have found MBTI validating , of the facts which I've always thought, that are; some people are just energetic vampires, some people are just stupid, and some people are just judgmental, and there's nothing that can be done about it - I already intuitively knew this.. So, the enneagram offered me more in the way of personal revelations in the end.
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Old 16th-December-2016, 01:35 PM   #47
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

I think you just dropped the mike with that one.
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Old 16th-December-2016, 02:26 PM   #48
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Mr. Trump, he has inherited a 20 trillion $ debt & low interest rates that are keeping the lion caged. We have no representation, our Constitution is now being hacked, whittled for a 100 years to a tooth pick. That is what they have done to the United States of America. The 'Ark' is sinking & no one wants to fix the leak, water pouring in. Now, enter Mr. Trump, there is problems in every direction. Mr. Trump in a builder, a winner, not an man of the Age of Envy, resentment fellow, not a destroyer. I do not think it matters what personality he is, I think, like INTP, he is misunderstood. It is your action that counts, not the talk. Just do the right thing! De-control, free trade, economic freedom, lower taxes, laissez-faire capitalism-that built this America. When in doubt, go back to what you know will work-obey nature, self interest, universal law, reason etc. What type is Mr. Trump? He does not believe in 'the divine right of parliaments', slavery, taxation, war. He considers them a crime. And remember, he is always a trader(buying & selling). 'John or Peter may not steal apples from the orchard owner, a million Johns & Peters may not combine to tax the orchard owner, restrict his liberty.' Mr. Trump understands? Put a lot of good thinking people around you. We shall
see!
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Old 16th-December-2016, 06:20 PM   #49
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

I'm gonna take a wild guess that Gilliatt voted for Trump.
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Old 17th-December-2016, 07:52 PM   #50
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Default Re: MBTI: Donald J. Trump

As others have said, clearly an ESTP. I know a couple, very similar. Not an N at all.
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