INTP Forum  

Go Back   INTP Forum > Within > Science & Technology

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 20th-November-2016, 04:08 PM   #1
TheHermit
Redshirt
 

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Banananananaland
Posts: 3
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Futurism. (weed-ism)

I'm assuming things without proper knowledge and reflection. Do forgive me, my lords.

My sci-fi dream... Let's create a etheral eternal being all-powerful everywhere-present all-knowing perfect immaterial infinite... Or maybe, you know, just passionate super-humans with elementary powers and stuff. It's easier. *Muahahaha*

I think It was made before in fiction and non-fiction, but, in this age, what are the real (or unreal?) chances of something like this actually happens? Please, enlighten me.

It doesn't matter what you believe, I just want to know your reasoned opinion about the human potential of creation (or destruction). Depending of your faith, It could be either a "copy" or a "original" god. I'm a romance novelist, I don't have proper references in tech-stuff!



*feeling high today*
TheHermit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th-November-2016, 04:20 PM   #2
Animekitty
A royal color
 
Animekitty's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Your Heart
Posts: 3,541
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

The future belongs to the machine spirits.

Animekitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th-November-2016, 04:29 PM   #3
Lagomorph
GPS: "Repopulating"
 
Lagomorph's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Down the hole with Alice
Posts: 323
linuxfedorafirefox
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

I thought we already were?
__________________
"It keeps going and going and going..."
Lagomorph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th-November-2016, 04:32 PM   #4
Tannhauser
angry insecure male
 
Tannhauser's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,470
linuxsafari
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

The potential for creating AI is vastly overestimated.

All we have currently (neural networks, support vector machines etc) is just fancy ways of doing regression. We are as close to creating thinking machines as we were when we invented the refrigerator.
Tannhauser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th-November-2016, 04:32 PM   #5
Rook
Resident Member
 
Rook's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,697
linuxfedorafirefox
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

To create a universe-making god one must first create a universe...?

If elementary physics allows some loopholes around our biological limitations, we may very well become closer unto the collective conception of a god, leaving behind our humanity like history left behind the dinosaurs.


From my viewpoint, a created god is far more boring, it is pre-defined and even if it surpasses the beings that made it, they still made it and chances are they put in fail-safes if it comes to threaten them. Chances are also great they designed it to think along similar lines as they do, for the sake of mutual understanding. A god created in their image, as most fictional gods on your planet are currently.

No, a sentient planet, a hive-mind shared by bat-like creatures that float through space, their minds larger than stars, a fungus-like being with every cell in its body a universe, ours among them. These are gods that interest my mind more than any that mortals may bring into being.

I guess ultimately, the god we make shall be limited in scope for we are limited in scope. Unless the universe has loopholes. And then one must ask: What brought those loopholes into being? The sentient blobs that grow universes as we grow petunias?
__________________

Rook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th-November-2016, 04:43 PM   #6
Haim
Member
 
Haim's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Israel
Posts: 556
linuxsafari
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

I was already created, when I was 14 years old.
I created many worlds, worlds which this world rules does not apply, worlds better than this one, where you don't have to live if you don't want to.I am a softwere developer god.
Haim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th-November-2016, 04:47 PM   #7
Sinny91
Banned
 

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 6,314
linuxsafari
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Humanity has already made many Gods.

Egregores.
Sinny91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th-November-2016, 10:09 PM   #8
Jake54321
Redshirt
 

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Nowhere Land
Posts: 19
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Will man eventually be able to make himself into a god?
Jake54321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th-November-2016, 11:45 PM   #9
Artsu Tharaz
Resident Resident
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: /~\
Posts: 2,283
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

;enters thread about to post something AI related
;first posts already are AI related

Well, it's settled, God will be a giant computer.
Artsu Tharaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st-November-2016, 10:19 AM   #10
Cognisant
Condescending Bastard
 
Cognisant's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,001
windows_98_nt_2000firefox
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

__________________
Deadlier, Sillier and more Perverted.
Cognisant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd-November-2016, 07:26 AM   #11
air.ee.yell
Redshirt
 

Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 13
unknownfirefox
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rook View Post
To create a universe-making god one must first create a universe...?

...

From my viewpoint, a created god is far more boring, it is pre-defined and even if it surpasses the beings that made it, they still made it and chances are they put in fail-safes if it comes to threaten them.

I think this is the case of "The creator is far more important that its creation." Think about it in this sense; if I created the world's first computer, and it was destroyed, I could still create it again. Which leads me to see why people say "cut off the head." But that's not the point. If my computer is powerful then I must be even more powerful because I'd have created something so powerful and can do it again. But I think I'm just repeating myself now lol. So I'll shut up.
air.ee.yell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd-November-2016, 01:58 PM   #12
Cognisant
Condescending Bastard
 
Cognisant's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,001
windows_98_nt_2000firefox
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

I can build machines that are stronger and faster than I am, code programs that can complete processes in a moment that would take me hours if not years, why do you think a creation cannot be more capable than its creator?
__________________
Deadlier, Sillier and more Perverted.
Cognisant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd-November-2016, 02:15 PM   #13
Blarraun
straightedgy
 
Blarraun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: someplace windswept
Posts: 4,101
windows_98_nt_2000firefox
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Humans are already gods.

Imagination is a tool of infinite creation and simulation. Reason and thought enable us to take on any perspective and shape reality as desired, the rest is a matter of temporary shortage of resources and conflicts with other gods.

We are the general purpose intelligence, we could create better intelligence that would do the same things much faster or more efficiently, however we already can achieve anything and everything if we had infinite time and resources to spare.

If you're asking whether we'll create a being that won't be restricted by time and resources, I'd say that it's very doubtful that it would be possible.
__________________
Spoiler:
~life is the exercise of will
Many valued logic
mail preferred

Blarraun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th-November-2016, 01:17 AM   #14
Hunter Wulf
Ayy lmao
 
Hunter Wulf's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 164
macossafari
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake54321 View Post
Will man eventually be able to make himself into a god?
We already are Gods, during the 1700s people would be worshiping us. Our modern society is filled with gadgets that would leave past people in awe. Let's use the lightbulb for example, or the average car or even the small portable computer that allows you to talk to anyone all the way across the globe and can give you an answer to any question with a few strokes of your finger.

Yeah, we're gods alright, but just imagine what the 22nd century will have that would make our jaws drop.
__________________
"Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus"
~Christopher Hitchens
Hunter Wulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th-November-2016, 03:31 AM   #15
Artsu Tharaz
Resident Resident
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: /~\
Posts: 2,283
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by air.ee.yell View Post
I think this is the case of "The creator is far more important that its creation." Think about it in this sense; if I created the world's first computer, and it was destroyed, I could still create it again. Which leads me to see why people say "cut off the head." But that's not the point. If my computer is powerful then I must be even more powerful because I'd have created something so powerful and can do it again. But I think I'm just repeating myself now lol. So I'll shut up.
Not necessarily... sort of.

See, we humans were created from the Earth and Sun. Now, these entities are more powerful than us, but we are the ones with what we know as "intelligence". It evolved.

Likewise, humans, through harnessing greater powers and knowledge of evolution, could hypothetically give birth to a greater intelligence than ourselves.

--

Regarding people becoming gods: I think with virtual reality we may well be essentially able to create reality around us (in virtual space) simply by thinking it so; at such a stage, we would be as gods.
Artsu Tharaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th-November-2016, 07:54 AM   #16
Lagomorph
GPS: "Repopulating"
 
Lagomorph's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Down the hole with Alice
Posts: 323
linuxfedorafirefox
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

*scans recent responses*

Seems like the one thing some might be missing is that creator can't be separate from creation.

I'm going to go ahead and declare that to be truth without immediately supplying supporting evidence. Fight me on it?
__________________
"It keeps going and going and going..."
Lagomorph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th-November-2016, 09:35 AM   #17
air.ee.yell
Redshirt
 

Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 13
unknownfirefox
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagomorph View Post
*scans recent responses*

Seems like the one thing some might be missing is that creator can't be separate from creation.

I'm going to go ahead and declare that to be truth without immediately supplying supporting evidence. Fight me on it?

Before I even get started, are we talking about the ACT of creation or the THING of its creation?

No, I'm definitely not going to fight you on it. But I do want to know why and how you see that link between a creator and its creation. Just because I don't see it, doesn't mean I don't want to. So, go ahead and explain it. There's something I'm missing and I don't understand it. I'd like to see what you believe connects these two things.
air.ee.yell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th-November-2016, 04:53 AM   #18
Intolerable
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,035
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

We could if we weren't so preoccupied with our own shortcomings. Namely personal bias, the comfort zone vs being wrong and a litany of reasons for recreating the wheel at every turn.

Just look at how we handle language. It's a mess.

My bet is no advanced intelligence is ever created by humans let alone a God.
Intolerable is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th-November-2016, 09:35 PM   #19
Architect
Professional INTP
 
Architect's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,664
macossafari
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Working on it, check back later.
__________________
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by skip
I don't see emotions as something that need to be controlled, they're just information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starjots
Because I think the Singularity is much more interesting than the Rapture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaSurfer
I don't really care to act against my nature anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennywocky
Discovery channel is like introductory porn for INTPs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin Minsky
I probably wouldn't go skydiving anyhow because my time is too valuable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8151147
Coding is fun, how the hell you can live without it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by E404
Sometimes the hardest part is knowing what I actually want and allowing myself to want it...
Architect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th-November-2016, 01:27 PM   #20
Lagomorph
GPS: "Repopulating"
 
Lagomorph's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Down the hole with Alice
Posts: 323
linuxfedorafirefox
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by air.ee.yell View Post
Before I even get started, are we talking about the ACT of creation or the THING of its creation?

No, I'm definitely not going to fight you on it. But I do want to know why and how you see that link between a creator and its creation. Just because I don't see it, doesn't mean I don't want to. So, go ahead and explain it. There's something I'm missing and I don't understand it. I'd like to see what you believe connects these two things.
I don't think there's a difference between act vs thing. That goes back to the ol' neoplatonic One. I'm not sure we can say that something came from nothing because we haven't exactly figured the universe out yet, so I reverted back to the stereotype "we are the universe observing itself" thing and tossed in a dash of reciprocal determinism for good measure. If the creator can't produce something from nothing, the only thing they have available, being the creator and the wonderful definitions and context of the subject matter associated with that word/title, is themselves.
__________________
"It keeps going and going and going..."
Lagomorph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st-December-2016, 09:19 AM   #21
DaDaMan
Dissident Resident
 
DaDaMan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: in your FACE!
Posts: 52
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

WE already do, any time we idolize something, we make it a god.
__________________
"More than ever man loves his comfort, for ours is an age of neurasthenia, impotence, and easy chairs."
DaDaMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th-December-2016, 02:43 PM   #22
IndigoViolet11
*.*
 
IndigoViolet11's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Junk ocean and pit of goodies
Posts: 70
linuxsafari
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

I wander in a tunnel confused whether I am myself or the tunnel. The branch out is so huge I do not know where to go
IndigoViolet11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th-December-2016, 03:10 PM   #23
420MuNkEy
Banned
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Pre-Apocalyptia
Posts: 748
linuxubuntufirefox
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

As I understand physics, "reality" could be nothing more than a quantum "simulation" arising from a very basic recursive quantum function. If we were able to initialize that simulation ourselves, we'd be "gods" (likely spawning other "gods" who spawn other "gods" out into infinity). To really get any sort of grasp on any of this we'd need to solve P vs NP, amongst other things. Like any "God" hypothesis, though, there's really no way to prove it in its full scope.

I'm not saying that's what I believe "reality" is, but I do find it to be an interesting idea nonetheless.
420MuNkEy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th-December-2016, 02:27 AM   #24
QuickTwist
INTPf's very own Southern Baptist
 
QuickTwist's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The keen war front.
Posts: 4,860
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Boring unrealistic topic that has no practical application today. You should feel good I am actually saying this, usually I don't even bother, so consider yourselves lucky.
__________________

Fucking right.
QuickTwist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th-December-2016, 01:58 PM   #25
420MuNkEy
Banned
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Pre-Apocalyptia
Posts: 748
linuxubuntufirefox
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickTwist View Post
Boring unrealistic topic that has no practical application today. You should feel good I am actually saying this, usually I don't even bother, so consider yourselves lucky.
So we should limit discussion/thought to that which has practical applications already?
This kind of thinking is the antitheses of technological progress.
420MuNkEy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th-December-2016, 05:55 PM   #26
QuickTwist
INTPf's very own Southern Baptist
 
QuickTwist's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The keen war front.
Posts: 4,860
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 420MuNkEy View Post
So we should limit discussion/thought to that which has practical applications already?
This kind of thinking is the antitheses of technological progress.
Nope, I'm saying there is a limit to what I can take.
__________________

Fucking right.
QuickTwist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th-December-2016, 07:18 PM   #27
420MuNkEy
Banned
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Pre-Apocalyptia
Posts: 748
linuxubuntufirefox
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickTwist View Post
Nope, I'm saying there is a limit to what I can take.
Aw, c'mon, guy. It's like you're trying to bait me into getting banned again.
420MuNkEy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th-December-2016, 07:34 PM   #28
QuickTwist
INTPf's very own Southern Baptist
 
QuickTwist's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The keen war front.
Posts: 4,860
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 420MuNkEy View Post
Aw, c'mon, guy. It's like you're trying to bait me into getting banned again.
I don't care honestly. You're free to live in your ridged world based on empiricism, I care not.
__________________

Fucking right.
QuickTwist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th-December-2016, 07:43 PM   #29
420MuNkEy
Banned
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Pre-Apocalyptia
Posts: 748
linuxubuntufirefox
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickTwist View Post
I don't care honestly. You're free to live in your ridged world based on empiricism, I care not.
Okay, buddy.
420MuNkEy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th-December-2016, 03:29 PM   #30
EyeSeeCold
lust for life
 

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California, USA
Posts: 7,734
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagomorph View Post
I don't think there's a difference between act vs thing. That goes back to the ol' neoplatonic One. I'm not sure we can say that something came from nothing because we haven't exactly figured the universe out yet, so I reverted back to the stereotype "we are the universe observing itself" thing and tossed in a dash of reciprocal determinism for good measure. If the creator can't produce something from nothing, the only thing they have available, being the creator and the wonderful definitions and context of the subject matter associated with that word/title, is themselves.
That makes me think there really is a goal of evolution and that is to reach the life form capable of conceiving a universe of its own.
__________________


Maybe there's no peace in this world, for us or for anyone else, I don't know. But I do know that, as long as we live, we must remain true to ourselves.

we will live on forever and ever
EyeSeeCold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th-December-2016, 04:18 PM   #31
Rixus
I introverted think. Therefore, I am.
 
Rixus's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: United Kingdon
Posts: 851
windows_xp_2003safari
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

At the risk of sounding Nietzschien, I don't believe there is a end goal to evolution. We are still evolving, and will continue to evolve. Hopefully, into something that will look back on ourselves as primitive and something we would look as almost god like. Possibly not better, though. Just adapted to whatever environment we happen to live in in the future.
__________________
Post a post post posting of this post.
Rixus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th-December-2016, 01:13 AM   #32
EyeSeeCold
lust for life
 

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California, USA
Posts: 7,734
windows_98_nt_2000safari
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blarraun View Post
Humans are already gods.

Imagination is a tool of infinite creation and simulation. Reason and thought enable us to take on any perspective and shape reality as desired, the rest is a matter of temporary shortage of resources and conflicts with other gods.

We are the general purpose intelligence, we could create better intelligence that would do the same things much faster or more efficiently, however we already can achieve anything and everything if we had infinite time and resources to spare.

If you're asking whether we'll create a being that won't be restricted by time and resources, I'd say that it's very doubtful that it would be possible.
When you dream it feels like realtime and your mind jumps from setting to setting during what feels like hours or even days, yet dreams are supposed to constitute the last few moments before waking or before REM ends.

Now imagine what if humans could create a method to induce prolonged REM sleep that lasts for days, weeks, years etc without the subject dying / going into an unwakeable coma? The dreams would feel like an eternity and the subject of the dream would only be restricted by their imagination.

Or perhaps if humans are finally able to upload consciousness to a digital means you could get similar results of infinite creation that are probably perceived with more tangibility, with the ability to design/import elaborate and detailed content.
__________________


Maybe there's no peace in this world, for us or for anyone else, I don't know. But I do know that, as long as we live, we must remain true to ourselves.

we will live on forever and ever
EyeSeeCold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th-December-2016, 02:07 AM   #33
Blarraun
straightedgy
 
Blarraun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: someplace windswept
Posts: 4,101
windows_98_nt_2000firefox
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
When you dream it feels like realtime and your mind jumps from setting to setting during what feels like hours or even days, yet dreams are supposed to constitute the last few moments before waking or before REM ends.
Yes. High compression of information processing and intake can be achieved, I was speaking in absolute terms saying that time is an entropic limit of what can be perceived (infinite existence without perceptible proof is possible, though meaningless from human standpoint). And time, considered potentially, is one set (dimension) of several spaces information can occupy before the amount of space runs out (if ever) and it has to move to the next (time) frame or become noise.

Our minds can escape into simulated n+1 universes of the omniverse, question being, is infinitely deep recursive simulation (universe creation) possible, or do you start running into density/other problems? If not, then there are hard physical limits on computability and feasible time compression that put a theoretical limit on the amount of resources that can be effectively utilised.

Even things as fundamental as having only a single source for consciousness/personality become a problem. As the distances between computation/information centers increase, even across multiple simulation depths, there arise new limits for maximal effective ranges of storing and recalling information for single-centered entities.

At some point an entity has to split and accept that it won't be able to have access to its wholeness in order to coordinate a much greater information processing effort.


Also it's worth considering if the dimensionality of the omniverse is ultimately accessible, or whether the versum is infinite going back to its metric (not unitary, but unit defining) properties.


With regards to doing anything our imagination is capable of producing (being godly), there's no doubt that it's physically possible to create a complete experience of such acts for limited instances of time (or limited instances of any fundamental characteristic that differentiates perception from existence).
__________________
Spoiler:
~life is the exercise of will
Many valued logic
mail preferred

Blarraun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th-December-2016, 12:09 AM   #34
Lagomorph
GPS: "Repopulating"
 
Lagomorph's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Down the hole with Alice
Posts: 323
linuxfedorafirefox
Default Re: Will humanity someday create "gods"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
That makes me think there really is a goal of evolution and that is to reach the life form capable of conceiving a universe of its own.
The kicker being that there's really only one universe, by definition. So then not to conceive it, which would by definition be within it (and hence not it), but to be it.
Spoiler:
__________________
"It keeps going and going and going..."
Lagomorph is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:53 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Template-Modifications by TMS
no new posts