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Old 3rd-October-2011, 01:14 AM   #1
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Default Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

Currently I think I am ESFJ

Fe - Si - Ne - Ti

INTP is the opposite

Ti - Ne - Si - Fe

I think this has relevance, not sure. I have the suspicion it has to do with cognitive ability(iq)(abstraction). Otherwise if I have no idea what the implications are.
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Old 3rd-October-2011, 01:47 AM   #2
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

What if the brain can run multiple processes at once? Would the order matter, or would it be more important what processes you are running?

What if you are running quad processor, 25% each Si, Ne, Fe and Ti. What are you?
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Old 3rd-October-2011, 01:55 AM   #3
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

It depends.

I could have 4 processors running in parallel but they could be running at different speeds:

Fe = 100 Hz
Si = 50 Hz
Ne = 25 Hz
Ti = 12 Hz
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Old 3rd-October-2011, 02:53 AM   #4
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animekitty View Post
It depends.

I could have 4 processors running in parallel but they could be running at different speeds:

Fe = 100 Hz
Si = 50 Hz
Ne = 25 Hz
Ti = 12 Hz
That's one sloooow processor.
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Old 3rd-October-2011, 05:37 AM   #5
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

I assume you are Ni. ENFJ was pushing it but can be explained by overuse of Ti. You need to relax on the Ti, so that you can focus on your natural strength in Fe. Suspend logical judgements for a while, and talk about your values instead. Maybe if you paired up with a T type who could see what you were getting at they could take over on that side, and this may be why you seek Ti-Ne for help.
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Old 3rd-October-2011, 06:55 AM   #6
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

Kitty: You are always talking about "what if" this and that. About future technologies/possibilities. And you are addicted to this kind of new wo-wows. This smells like Ne to me. (I have the same)
Ne is a possible pleasure pursuer, Ni is a possible pain avoider. You are clearly after pleasure when you talk about possibilities. (so its clearly Ne and not Ni).

Se and Si is out of the question. You are just doubting too much.

Yet I have Ti as a second function to sort things out. But I think you sort things out differently. You use Fi to sort things out.

So since you are NeFi, you are ENFP
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Old 3rd-October-2011, 11:55 AM   #7
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages


I think you are an introvert.
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Old 3rd-October-2011, 12:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

If that video is animekitty talking, im going to say Ti dom. there is these "since x, therefore y" and "because of..." "so this is blablabla.." all the time. also he is using cross-contextual thinking all the time, = airplane is like a metal bird with people in and airplane pilot is like the brains of the bird, or otherways using a totally different situation to talk about other, but so that the fundamentals still fit, which suggests to Ne.

I talk in very similar fashion, thats why some people have hard time following me. they cant follow the reasoning properly and doesent understand metaphors very well, so when i combine these, most cant follow too well, unless what im saying isnt something really simple.
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Old 5th-October-2011, 01:09 AM   #9
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

INFP always did seem right.
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Old 5th-October-2011, 01:45 AM   #10
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

Sensors process information differently than Intuitives. Sensors take a data observation, then form a potential conclusion, then act on it a little. Then they take another observation, then check if their conclusion needs a tweak, and then acts on it a little. They repeat this behaviour in a continual loop, until they achieve their objective. They don't know how the results will turn out, only that they are aiming for a general type of conclusion, and that as long as this method is continued, it is likely to get them the results they desire.

This method is how humans drive. It's also how humans socialise. It's a highly advanced type of cognitive processing, that is evolutionary in nature.

Intuitives take many data observations, and then mull them over, until they have developed a cohesive vision of how the whole system operates. Then they act as if the system they have developed is reality.

This method takes a lot more time than the Sensor approach. It's really only useful for those situations where evolutionarily speaking, we would normally go extinct as a species. Thus, it's primary function is long-range forecasting to avert lethal situations in the far-off future. It's secondary function is to improve evolutionary models used in Sensor thinking, to make Sensor evolutionary processing more efficient.

In the context of driving, intuitive thinking is useful when you are not driving, but nearly had an accident, and are trying to work out how to avoid such potentially lethal problems in the future. It's also useful when you are not driving, but want to understand the driving model better, to figure out how to became an ace driver.

Advantages of Sensor thinking: Quick. Useful in most situations.

Disadvantages of Sensor thinking: Requires lots of observations. Feels rather chaotic, due to not being quite sure of the end result. Won't improve the model, and still leaves one open to unforeseen dangers.

Aka jock, who mostly gets by life, but seems to think rather stupidly, and doesn't see what his life will be like 5-10 years down the road.

Disadvantages of Intuitive thinking: Slow. In most situations, it's not useful. In many situations, it's so slow, that it puts one in danger from lethal threats.

Advantages of Intuitive thinking: It improves the models used in Sensor thinking, to avoid the lethal threats that Sensor thinking misses, and to actually make the Sensor thinking much more efficient. Also makes one feel much more like one knows what one is doing.

Aka geek, who mostly gets very little out of life, except when his long-term career and life plans mature, and then basically rides them out.
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Old 5th-October-2011, 02:54 AM   #11
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpiomover View Post
Sensors process information differently than Intuitives. Sensors take a data observation, then form a potential conclusion, then act on it a little. Then they take another observation, then check if their conclusion needs a tweak, and then acts on it a little. They repeat this behaviour in a continual loop, until they achieve their objective. They don't know how the results will turn out, only that they are aiming for a general type of conclusion, and that as long as this method is continued, it is likely to get them the results they desire.

This method is how humans drive. It's also how humans socialise. It's a highly advanced type of cognitive processing, that is evolutionary in nature.

Intuitives take many data observations, and then mull them over, until they have developed a cohesive vision of how the whole system operates. Then they act as if the system they have developed is reality.

This method takes a lot more time than the Sensor approach. It's really only useful for those situations where evolutionarily speaking, we would normally go extinct as a species. Thus, it's primary function is long-range forecasting to avert lethal situations in the far-off future. It's secondary function is to improve evolutionary models used in Sensor thinking, to make Sensor evolutionary processing more efficient.

In the context of driving, intuitive thinking is useful when you are not driving, but nearly had an accident, and are trying to work out how to avoid such potentially lethal problems in the future. It's also useful when you are not driving, but want to understand the driving model better, to figure out how to became an ace driver.

Advantages of Sensor thinking: Quick. Useful in most situations.

Disadvantages of Sensor thinking: Requires lots of observations. Feels rather chaotic, due to not being quite sure of the end result. Won't improve the model, and still leaves one open to unforeseen dangers.

Aka jock, who mostly gets by life, but seems to think rather stupidly, and doesn't see what his life will be like 5-10 years down the road.

Disadvantages of Intuitive thinking: Slow. In most situations, it's not useful. In many situations, it's so slow, that it puts one in danger from lethal threats.

Advantages of Intuitive thinking: It improves the models used in Sensor thinking, to avoid the lethal threats that Sensor thinking misses, and to actually make the Sensor thinking much more efficient. Also makes one feel much more like one knows what one is doing.

Aka geek, who mostly gets very little out of life, except when his long-term career and life plans mature, and then basically rides them out.
To be honest, this gives me that fortune cookie vibe: incredibly simplified and not terribly accurate. I'm not really sure why, though.

Maybe it's because you keep saying "sensory/intuitive thinking", which in the realm of MBTI makes no sense.
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Old 5th-October-2011, 10:41 AM   #12
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

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Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
To be honest, this gives me that fortune cookie vibe: incredibly simplified and not terribly accurate. I'm not really sure why, though.
I can see why, for 2 reasons:

1) Stereotypical views of MBTI are that people are either Ns or Ses. This is due to the fact that old MBTI tests only gave if you were an N or an S, leading people to assume that people were either intuitives or sensors, with nothing in between. My descriptions allow for people to do both.

2) Stereotypical views of MBTI are that Ses are stupid, and Ns are smart, and that Ns are naturally far, far better thinkers than Ss. My descriptions imply that Ss are actually very smart, and Ns aren't all that smart at all. It's bound to grate against Ns, who would stereotypically feel they are superior to Ss.

Quote:
Maybe it's because you keep saying "sensory/intuitive thinking", which in the realm of MBTI makes no sense.
If you look at the online questionnaires to determine your MBTI type that are quoted here, they give percentages for N and percentages for S. They clearly show that almost all people have some N, and some S. So the reality is that nearly all people are both intuitives AND sensors. Whether you are labelled as an INTP or an ISTP by a test, depends on which one you use MORE.

The reality is that stereotypical views of MBTI include a lot of things that are quite clearly misapprehensions about MBTI, due to how tests were presented in the past.
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Old 5th-October-2011, 02:40 PM   #13
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

I think you're overcomplicating things. Fi and Te seems pretty evident to me. The video indicates unawareness towards any "external feeling system" as well as natural apathy to its existence. Face is mostly static and affected only when you engage in discussing greater technicalities. Also, you remind me of my ISFP cousin, which may or may not mean anything in relation to your Sensor hypothesis. I'm not sure about your other functions nor am i interested in looking into it further.
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Old 5th-October-2011, 04:08 PM   #14
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

^ Animekitty reminds me of Andy Warhol.



Whom I reckon was probably ISFp, in Socionics and in MBTI.

Not sure if Animekitty is ISFp, though that's not a bad typing in all.
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Old 7th-October-2011, 12:46 AM   #15
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

AnimeKitty as FiSe? =/

probs not
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Old 7th-October-2011, 04:07 AM   #16
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpiomover View Post
I can see why, for 2 reasons:

1) Stereotypical views of MBTI are that people are either Ns or Ses. This is due to the fact that old MBTI tests only gave if you were an N or an S, leading people to assume that people were either intuitives or sensors, with nothing in between. My descriptions allow for people to do both.

2) Stereotypical views of MBTI are that Ses are stupid, and Ns are smart, and that Ns are naturally far, far better thinkers than Ss. My descriptions imply that Ss are actually very smart, and Ns aren't all that smart at all. It's bound to grate against Ns, who would stereotypically feel they are superior to Ss.
After reading this and looking back at the other post, I think I know why I was getting the fortune cookie vibe. Your descriptions are just as stereotypical as the traditional ones you're rebelling against, except they point in the other direction. Saying that S is more useful than N is just as inaccurate as saying that Ns are smarter than Ses.

In reality, neither S nor N is inherently more useful than the other. They are merely different ways of seeing the world.

Quote:
If you look at the online questionnaires to determine your MBTI type that are quoted here, they give percentages for N and percentages for S. They clearly show that almost all people have some N, and some S. So the reality is that nearly all people are both intuitives AND sensors. Whether you are labelled as an INTP or an ISTP by a test, depends on which one you use MORE.

The reality is that stereotypical views of MBTI include a lot of things that are quite clearly misapprehensions about MBTI, due to how tests were presented in the past.
You misunderstand me. I was referring to your use of N and S as a type of thinking, as opposed to a type of perception. Saying "intuitive thinking" or "sensory thinking" makes no sense in this context.
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Old 7th-October-2011, 04:11 AM   #17
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

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^ Animekitty reminds me of Andy Warhol.

Whom I reckon was probably ISFp, in Socionics and in MBTI.
Doesn't the socionics ISFp translate to ISFJ in MBTI?
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Old 7th-October-2011, 07:26 AM   #18
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

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Doesn't the socionics ISFp translate to ISFJ in MBTI?
My opinion:

Both MBTI and Socionics get this confused.

If you look at the functions which MBTI is approximating, then you get ISFP = Fi-Se. If you look at ISFp you get Si-Fe.

The two basic solutions to the discrepancy:
Spoiler:
ISFP and ISFp are meant to describe the same basic thing, so that i and e in the functions must have been interpreted differently between the models. While i and e are internal/external (roughly) in MBTI, perhaps there is an interpretations such the dominant = e, auxiliary = i from MBTI to Socionics.

On the other hand, the simpler solutions is to say IP = Ij, which assume that the MBTI P/J dichotomy is not the same as Socionics p/j.


Function ratios in testing: (aside)
Spoiler:

Intro/Extroversion: prevalence of Pi and Ji compared to Pe and Je
Perception/Judgement: prevalence of Pi and Pe compared to Ji and Je
Adaption/Direction: prevalence of Pi and Je compared to Ji and Pe

What we could do is to obtain values for these three dichotomies from a person. This would tell us the ratios of Pi/Ji/Pe/Je. Further dichotomising would be for: Ne + Ni vs Se + Si, Fe + Fi vs Te + Ti, Ne + Si vs Ni + Se, Ti + Fe vs Fi + Te. (note: question should address constituent parts of a dichotomy -together-, rather than testing them separately and then adding.)

These 7 dichotomies when taken together will give you the ratios between all 8 functions.
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Old 7th-October-2011, 11:22 AM   #19
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

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On the other hand, the simpler solutions is to say IP = Ij, which assume that the MBTI P/J dichotomy is not the same as Socionics p/j.
This is how it was explained to me. In MBTI the 4th dichotomy designates the Extroverted function, whereas in socionics it designates the primary function.

Then again, I'm no typology expert.
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Old 8th-October-2011, 05:12 AM   #20
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

Off-topic: more on J/P
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This is how it was explained to me. In MBTI the 4th dichotomy designates the Extroverted function, whereas in socionics it designates the primary function.

Then again, I'm no typology expert.
There are two interpretations of J and P at work:

on the one hand it is designated by the functions, and assuming MBTI functions~= socionics functions, IP = Ij.

However, it is also described in terms of the manifest trait as a result of changing P and J while holding the other things constant, which is described as something like having a preference for structure in general. This is described roughly the same in both models, so you would think J = j etc. An introverted adaptive (Ji-Pe) type would probably seem more J like from this perspective.

This is a valid issue when you consider that a huge proportion of introverts are scoring as the incorrect type due to this axis being messed up. For example, many Ni-Fe have come here after scoring INxP, seeing that this meant Ji-Pe, ruling out Fi dominance, and so thinking they were Ti-Ne, and many (either on their own or through being read) are now realising that they are indeed Ni-Fe.

That doesn't mean that they're -supposed- to be scoring as Js on MBTI tests, but that MBTI probably invalidly assigned functions to the various types.
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Old 11th-October-2011, 11:14 AM   #21
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

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After reading this and looking back at the other post, I think I know why I was getting the fortune cookie vibe. Your descriptions are just as stereotypical as the traditional ones you're rebelling against, except they point in the other direction. Saying that S is more useful than N is just as inaccurate as saying that Ns are smarter than Ses.

In reality, neither S nor N is inherently more useful than the other. They are merely different ways of seeing the world.
OK. I am an INTP, meaning, I do N most of the time, and rarely do S. I was given the impression that smart people believe that N is considered better than S. I was attempting to redress the balance.

Quote:
You misunderstand me. I was referring to your use of N and S as a type of thinking, as opposed to a type of perception. Saying "intuitive thinking" or "sensory thinking" makes no sense in this context.
Sorry. I'm an INTP. I think all the time. So when I say "thinking", I mean the thing I do all the time, that thing that happens in your brain, that most people call "thinking". I don't really see N-perception as being outside of your brain, and hence, I would call it "thinking".
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Old 27th-December-2014, 12:42 PM   #22
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

scorpiomover

I think you are right about the observation part. Everything i do is incremental. This is very frustrating because when i don't get immediate feedback i stagnate. I cannot contemplate effectively because now that i regard myself as ISTP i know that Introverted Intuition is unconscious in me. It appears in my dreams but awake i only get to relate ideas by the fact that Se collection. I do not get to have them emerge as totally new concepts but recombination through Ti. I cannot picture anything in my mind, i think something by saying it with my inner voice as to the concept and then the factual data to work with is in that concept. The things i design are small not elaborate system. Most of my life i have been sad because my ideas never went anywhere. I wanted to design cool things but i had no way of thinking about what they would be for so at night i would lay in bed forcing myself to try and think what they were for and if it was cool then they be for something. I also was unable to make them and this made me very, very sad because i could not experiment. I thought I was useless and not smart and no one payed attention to me so i was all alone in my frustration. The only thing i could do to make myself feel better was absorb new information from books and cartoons that were cool. I did not care if i was unable to form new concepts from the information but could think of new combinations. The other thing was that sad cartoons made me feel helpless because i could not help them. I have had existential disrepair sense i was 6 when i say All dogs go to heaven. I may seem like a feeler but this is nothing to do with control over it. It is an unconscious desire not to feel hurt from Fe because Fe seeks control and my suppressed Fe was denied this. I hope i feel better soon because my family had a bad Christmas and my inferiority complex was activated again.

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Old 27th-December-2014, 09:33 PM   #23
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

When watching the videos, I get INTP for animekitty.
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Old 27th-December-2014, 09:58 PM   #24
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

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When watching the videos, I get INTP for animekitty.
That would be a surprise

The Se - Ne distinction would be if my ideas were purely for my speculation (Ne) or with details (Se). I cant decide. I don't like physical activity (Se) or hands on tasks but also i wanted to make the things i thought of.

Other INTPs are better at Ti than me so what if ENTP?
This messes up my understanding of the functions.
My definition of Se needs to change if i have Si.
Si and Fe are unconscious in both INTP and ENTP.
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Old 4th-January-2015, 12:52 AM   #25
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

based on your video the overall vibe i got first was that you were an INTJ. you're introverted and based on mostly irrational judgement you seem to use Fi and Te. you could be an unusual type of INFP but you appear more N dom and you show stronger Te compared to Fi here. not so great with enneagram but i'd suspect that you're a 5w4. i could elaborate more if you'd like. need more info to properly decide between those two types.
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Old 4th-January-2015, 01:28 AM   #26
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

INTJ is plausible as well.

I really think you are intuitive. And I also have reason to believe, a thinker.
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Old 4th-January-2015, 01:59 AM   #27
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

i think you are using Ni and your approach to typology or theory of mind is distinctly different from mine, because of that.

you have very focused eyes and your smile does not intrude into your face at all. you are not dominant in feeling. might be thinking or intuition then.

let's look at some Ni doms.

are you more like kristen stewart/teal scott/christian bale/patrick stewart ?

these Ni users are like a spectrum from strong Fe over weaker Fe to weaker Te to strong Te.
i am looking at their mouth, among other things.
your upper lip is always floating around without tension, this i consider to be good proof of extroverted feeling. i think you are most like kristen stewart.

i think your thinking is spaced out, it exists in a playground, a holo-deck, like a thinking that has no purpose in your life and this is what the thinking of feeling types is like, it's how i know INFJ from privat conversation and my own thinking might be similarly removed from purpose, albeit i hate to admit that. i mean it's a good thing that out thinking is not corrupted by purpose of personal story. but it's sad, that might be meaningless in our life, when earning money as a pundit is our dream job. it may be damned to be meaningless, because other people are hardwired to ignore our thoughts, because our faces do not produce the proper cues of serious thinking. we are cute.


let's look at someone who is ISFP according to me. andrew schrock, the skater who runs that channel. he is a lot more like me (compared to you), except he exists in physical reality and has good motivation powers of Se, something both you and me are lacking in severely. and he is nothing like you, overall. he has adaptive eyebrows like me #** **# you have directive eyebrows **# #**. afaik relaxation of eyebrows towards the middle correlates with extroverted perception, contraction of eyebrows towards nose correlates with intense focus of introverted perception. not all individuals have a clear preference though.

now, in case the wild man, who looks like the singer from dresden dolls, amanda palmer, who just decided that he is isfp the other day, looks into this thread. what's his name again. quick twist. the both of you don't resemble andrew schrock at all, so i can't follow that sentiment. you folks must be a combination of Pi and Je.
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Old 5th-January-2015, 05:27 AM   #28
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

animekitty, you are obsessed with the idea that Ni users are having dream like color full imagery in their mind and that you can not be an Ni user, because you don't.

do you have any evidence at all, that Ni users use a lot of imagery like this?

i think it's most unlikely, since intuition is not concerned with static qualities like color but with process, which should lead to invisible images, in other words to symbols, specifically to geometric operators.

i don't even mean to suggest that intuition IS invisible operators, i merely assume a compatibility of such though-forms with the intuitive mind. they can be relevant to process.

i would sooner believe that Si types might have vivid visually substantial or even colorful imaginations. not necessarily that Si is those images but that they may be held in focus through Si.



S and N are principles of how intelligence moves and processes items of perception. the function is a land of references, of meaningful associations that have grown in the unconscious mind. but "using" the function means exploring the references. it's why when you think of one static aspect within the realm of all static perspectives you can think of all the neighboring aspects or of similar aspects right away. it's whatever guides the attention in this way.

exploring perception means that a particular focus is destroyed and moved.

this is why solid images don't have time to become real to you.

only when the mind becomes entirely silent, while exploring outer visuals or inner symbols, can a picture solidify or crystallize in full graphic detail. this doesn't usually happen for most of us. i remember one day, i had a walk and looked into a tree and my mind went blank. not only did i not forget that tree for months, i was also able to recall it and recall many qualities of that past state of silence along with it, so that it felt as if i am still standing in the very same place somehow. the most vivid memory i had in my whole life.

i visualise a lot of colorful stuff when i am idling around. like skateboarding. but this stuff doesn't seem relevant to thinking. and it's extremely instable, like a buch of agitated bats flying into your face. the image stream is over before you know it.
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Old 5th-January-2015, 06:24 AM   #29
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

It is hard for my mind to become silent because the references shift i think this is a higher abstraction layer in the brain and feedback does not reach phenomenal perception but stays in the frontal lobes. what is silent is my inner voice, i don't have trouble blanking it out like most meditation teachers tell you to do. The default network must be different in me as i create higher level abstractions that are invisible yet there. This mostly allows me not to plan my actions but be in the moment in a different way. I intuit options and compare them to the real world much like summing up entire situations with regard to what will work. Also my dialog is unplanned not focused on the object(words) but the meaning behind them such that i sometime say what i don't understand but it feel right syntactical. I pause to come up with the right word and i receive it. This is why i think incrementally with a pause to know the answer without effort. But when i cannot expound them i become frustrated because i pause and get no answer thus not able to continue. This is why i am focused on collecting information.

External symbols come into relation with my unconscious to start flowing again. The flow is interrelated thus references are a continues thought on one theme which Extroverted Intuitive users conglomeration is sporadic. They take the multiplicity as divergent where i must get to the main point that includes all converges for a final conclusion that ties it all together. More and more it accumulates and it synergies into a whole. I don't sort through it, i let it congeal. The reason i was unsure is that Jung considered himself a Ti dominant so his explanations of Ni did not settle with me at first. It was too much information for me to build my representation of with a weak vocabulary and concept extraction on my part. Jung made it seem imagery was important so it filtrated all information i expected of types. I wanted to find the nomenclature of type behavior and similarities of people with a type. Now i can understand type is irreducible to this method. I only need to reevaluate past understanding to new revelations as to a model that isn't torn between my assumptions and feedback of others explanations.
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Old 7th-May-2015, 07:12 AM   #30
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

You are an ISTP TiSeNiFeTeSiNeFi

I believe that in your youth, you looped a lot as well. (Ni-Ti) So it's extremely possible that you could test as INTP. The test would pick up Introvert Thinker Intuitive Perceiver, because most of the MBTI tests are actually flawed and open for error. This is why the official ones you have an interview with a certified individual.

I have no doubt you have noticed things about your Se. You are very good at things naturally which other people aren't even if you haven't honed those skills. For example you could catch something that is about to fall, that you noticed in the corner of your eye, in a snap response to it. If someone was coming behind you to punch you, and your peripheral vision caught a glimpse of it, you might actually quickly turn around and punch them first. You have this synthesis between your Se/Ni. Bruce Lee had this and Michael Jordan has this.

Also your interest and love of the physical world/universe is accounted for in this Ti/Se/Ni combo. Sometimes your inability to remember specifics and data, can get you labeled as slow or unintelligent. It is actually all in your head very well, but other people distract you and your thoughts, just the site of their face or you picking up on their emotions can interfere with you exploring and explaining your thoughts.

Spoiler:


Spoiler:


You are a dominant inner thinker, who shifts perspectives well from your external stimuli and your internal honed gravity like interpretations that look at the possibilities, but with the purpose of narrowing them down to the core.

I have somehow turned this into a ramble. I also believe your enneagram type is 5w6, but it's possible that it could be 6w5.

I am an INFJ. Of all the 16 types, I am the only other introvert that shares the same internal world as you. Ti-Ni / Ni-Ti. One of my best friends is an ISTP and he is extremely similar to you and how your mind works in the description of " Crystal Computation " Steve Jobs is an ISTP and he unlocked the powers of his intuition and confidence.

My friend helped me unlock the proper focus and use of my Se in combination with Ti (I already used a lot of Ti, but it's a different beast when used properly with Se as ISTP's use it) I helped him trust his intuitions and reading other people more, without having to have the facts right in front of his face. I made damn sure to give examples in situations and prove my intuition was right too. He was stubborn at first, and I didn't like having Se forced on me. Your 3rd and 4th function will grow immensely, if you find a good INFJ friend and the right situations to grow and learn from.

Any ISTP that appears stupid to someone else, it's because they feel no one understands their internal world and as time has evolved in life, they have given up trying to convey it.

There is much more I know and could say about ISTP's that are amazing things, it's all true too. If I was living in the wild west, in the 1800's, I would want to be an ISTP. I would welcome the reduction in Fe, so I could give less of a fuck, and the increase in Se, so that I'm more attuned to my surroundings, with just enough Ni to see what's coming so I don't become " that guy ".

Surgery, Fighter Jets, Martial Arts, Physics, Teaching people through actions and the butterfly effect rather than words. ISTP's are amazing!

Please take one thing from everything I said. You are an ISTP I promise. Don't get lost in the confusion of others opinions of what it means to be an ISTP you already know who you are. We are all sensors, we are all intuitive, we all think, and we all feel. It sounds dumb to say this, as though I'm insulting your intelligence, but it's merely a reminder.

p.s. Jung was an INFJ. I'm not saying this because some other person or information told me so, I consumed all of his videos/many books, etc. to make my own determination. There is a lot of good information in "psychological types "(book), and it's understandable why Jung might think he was a Ti dom. Also your Ni is much stronger than you probably know. If you connect with INTJ's and INFJ's you will gain clarity overtime and realize that your intuition is strong and it will get stronger. Ni/Fe is nothing until Ti comes in and breaks it down.

I have a side note question. Do you ever induce emotions (fi) on purpose? I think if you go through long periods of time where you haven't deeply felt anything, you should induce it. Even if it's by your self watch an emotional movie, listen to some music or something that might bring you to tears. Even if you don't like it just let it come through you and experience it, if you fall asleep with those emotions and tears, your dreams will sort through them, and you will wake up feeling better if you just let it flow through you. I'm only saying this if you allow your self to go to long without feeling anything deeply.
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Old 7th-May-2015, 09:21 AM   #31
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

the way he talk is saying he is istp.

case closed here

P/S I have an ISTP non-blood related younger brother. I love his Se and hate his Ti, so rude and too practical, that may hurt other people without realizing it.
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Old 7th-May-2015, 09:38 AM   #32
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnrequitedMind View Post
Steve Jobs is an ISTP and he unlocked the powers of his intuition and confidence.
This might be wrong as you need to re-think about it. Steve jobs is an INTP i think, not a typical one though because he is an adoptive child.

Quote:
"Paul and Clara are 100% my parents. And Joanna and Abdulfatah—are only a sperm and an egg bank. It's not rude, it is the truth."
This prove his Ti, and the way he expressing it suggest Ne.

Quote:
"If I had never dropped in on that single calligraphy course in college, the Mac would have never had multiple typefaces or proportionally spaced fonts.
This suggest Ne and Ti.

Edited: after digging about his information, I doubt if he is INTP because he is actually very similar to ISTP. He keen on objects and doesn't code.
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Old 7th-May-2015, 07:02 PM   #33
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8151147 View Post
This might be wrong as you need to re-think about it. Steve jobs is an INTP i think, not a typical one though because he is an adoptive child.
It is apparent in these interviews that he is an ISTP. " Visionary " Is the word that comes to my mind. You can see that he is using a lot of Ni. You can see that his Fe is inferior.

48:15 see how long he pauses and is using Ni to project into possibilities of the future, but for the purpose of honing it down, to what is most likely, or what makes sense to him and his intuition. Of course INTP's have Ni too, but I'm just pointing out that Steve Jobs uses Ni alot. I have seen many ISTP's that don't become " Self Aware " of their Ni, I think Steve Jobs learned a lot when he went to India, and India in the 70's was much more different than today.





When his eye's look up and to the left, and he has those pauses, there is a connection with that and Ni. Not to say that people always look up and to the left when they use Ni. Just to let you know there is a pattern there. Up and to the right for Ti. I would explain more on that, but it's just a pattern I've noticed.

Ni is extremely accessible for INTP's as well. <1-3>(4)[5-6]{7-8} It's 7 and 8 that are the true stumpers. I think 5-6 become the new fixation when you finally incorporate your top 4 to work together. I bet a lot of INTP's get a new found fixation with Te/Ni somewhere in the middle of their lives.
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When we say " your intuition " we are talking about Ni. We don't say how are you feeling, and assume it's Fe. We don't say what are your thoughts and assume it's Te. We don't ask if someone remembers a specific and assume they will look all around with Se to remember it, because then they don't remember it. If you ask Yoda for an insight, he doesn't sporadically go off into 1,000 possibilities with wide eyes.
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Old 7th-May-2015, 08:00 PM   #34
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

Hate Sensors.
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Old 8th-May-2015, 08:17 AM   #35
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Default Re: Am I a Sensor: advantages / disadvantages

i am not so sure about repressed Fe?
i do not use Ti as much as i should,
there isn't much to do at all were i am

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Old 16th-August-2016, 02:21 PM   #36
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OK so after some meditation, eating better and dealing with repressed emotions I feel allot better than I have in the longest of time I finally come down to trying to understand the difference between INTP's and INTJ's - Both have functions that I feel I can relate to. One problem in understanding them is that my anxiety prevented me from accomplishing tasks like my A.I. project because I did not know what to do. I still don't understand Java and nothing of C++ I know that Te is all about figuring out how to accomplish tasks. But I could not decide for the longest time what goals I wanted to accomplish. I felt like I had to do something but I never did and that was really bad because of all the anxiety. The difference between Ne and Ni is also really confusing. Ni is more personal in that an individual follows an archetype. For example, the Pokemon that I am most like is Ponyta and Mew. This may be the result of Ne also but in the opposite way of Ni. Ni generates new archatypes from the inside and becomes them. Ne finds archetypes as a best fit rather than creating them.

ENFP's use both Ne and Fi - Fi is the core self and the most introverted. On August 8 in a dream, I met my anima. The anima is the female psyche inside males. All experiences a male has had with females is combined in the anima. All experiences a female has had with males is combined in the animus. When I met my anima the energy I felt was pure love as we held each other. It felt right. This is what I think is Introverted feeling. I think that I am also confused because MBTI is linear whereas the 4/four functions are in a stack instead of quadrants. If you put the functions in a diamond then the way they work together changes.

ENFP becomes ((inside)(Fi-Si)-(Te-Ne)(outside))
INTJ becomes ((inside)(Ni-Fi)-(Te-Se)(outside))

Introverted functions should work together and extroverted functions should work together. Extroverts like ENFP go from outside to inside. INTJ's go from inside to outside.

(ENFP -> Ne -> Te -> Si -> Fi)
(INTJ -> Ni -> Fi -> Se -> Te)
(INTP -> Ti -> Si -> Fe -> Ne)

For the ENFP Ne determines what Te does. Te is always acting on Ne discoveries. ENFP is in a constant state of action. Si remembers those actions and they sink into Fi as acceptable and good or negative and bad.

For INTJ Ni is constantly being absorbed into Fi as constant contemplation. Se looks for the relation the external has to the internal producing Te actions. Actions follow synchronicity.

INTP Ti creates constructs that Si stores. Fe utilizes Ne to maintain harmony where Ne understands all relationships Fe must keep in mind.

So INTJ and INTP are distinguished by the creation of their internal worlds.

INTP follow propositions with a library. They know all relations of people and things by internal cogitation.

INTJ create words, beings and entities that are them just as dream people are them. INTJ's summon the creations and look for them in the external world as external is internal, Lucid dreaming when awake or asleep.

If I had to decide I would say I am more of an INTP than I am an INTJ.
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Old 16th-August-2016, 03:35 PM   #37
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Default Re: INTJ or INTP what's the difference?

Se
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Old 16th-August-2016, 03:43 PM   #38
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Default Re: INTJ or INTP what's the difference?

me ESFP?
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Old 8th-January-2017, 03:02 AM   #39
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Default Guess My Inferior Function.

I read that you can figure out what type a person is by looking for the signs of the inferior function. The inferior is the least developed thus the most exaggerated. When I thought of this I realized I may inferior may be Fe. Fe loves to engage external values. Fi is quite and says little but expresses itself in a subtle way. Fe is all over the place concerned with likes and dislikes and lots of looking externally for them. Fi looks inward and focuses one one value deeply. Fe sees so much in the world it can hardly focus. The ability to focus on your values as an inferior judgment function would lead to less focus. Fe as a dominant function would focus longer but on external objects. Fi focuses inward on happy or sad or any other value. The value is on the inside so the focus is inward for Fi. In Feeling the value would be like the value freedom. Freedom is coming from the world into the person with Fe. For Fi freedom comes from the inside and then goes outward. That is the best way to put it.

So am I Fe or Fi inferior? Or am I Ti or Te inferior? Or is perception inferior?

Guess my inferior function. (not a trick question, I still don't know)
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Old 8th-January-2017, 03:15 AM   #40
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Default Re: Guess My Inferior Function.

I would say Se. INXJ
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Old 8th-January-2017, 08:03 AM   #41
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Default Re: Guess My Inferior Function.

the true marker of this function is that it haunts and obsesses you, not that it is of inferior quality or that you simply have it. because all functions that are not dominant are relatively more inferior. where inferiority means that you avoid it, when you can and don't work as hard on evolving it, tweaking it, negotiating with it. and even the functions that you do not "have", according to mbti speak, are actually present when you need them, in inferior version, however they would not haunt or obsess you.

so you are looking for a strategy of your character that makes you look like a split personality. when you are in the gravity of this strategy, you exhibit the trait in rigid manner and feel unfree, urged, obsessed or as you put it you lost breath of focus, which could be a sense of autonomy. when you are outside of the gravity of this strategy, you avoid getting into it. but you never quite notice how you slip into it. it just happens sooner or later. in the case of extroverted functions, their gravity comes along with interaction, engagement in your environment or situation. and you can escape their gravity with mere passive experience of events the more you stick to intrinsic motives that don't affect the world.
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Old 8th-January-2017, 08:26 AM   #42
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Default Re: Guess My Inferior Function.

the unconscious echo to our conscious functions, meaning the inferior or tertiary function, is something we would surrender to without much negotiation, without attempting to evolve it, unless we have the opportunity to escape it all together.

surrendering and escaping makes our actions inconsistent: it can seem like a case of split personality.

especially in the case of the inferior, where inconsistency of behavior is most pronounced.

but even the auxiliary function can appear in such inconsistent manner. its also inferior compared to the dominant function. but it doesn't enslave the individual like an overpowering alien force. likewise a function that you don't "have at all", according to mbti speak, is going to be inferior, but it won't obsess you. such as Fe in INFP.

my current view of those functions and their typical inconsistency:

unconscious Te is a rigid idea of law and order, of following protocol and thinking in rules of wrong and right.

Te cooks by the book, but when inferior, that book (protocol) hasn't been updated in a century, because books are not taken seriously enough. a protocol is knowledge of what priorities work best under certain circumstance and such knowledge is highly appreciated, but experimentation that would produce more of this knowledge is very feared and procrastinated, because it would require some action without knowledge or predictability. also a protocol may be applied to inappropriate circumstances, because unconscious judgement is somewhat removed from acute perception. the person may be compulsively honest, when a lie would be the most sensible strategy. they may not give away private information, when it may be an ideal occasion for opening up. the individual seeks to live in a bubble that allows distance from Te, from standards, protocols or promises that were made, but when they feel those elements have entered into their bubble, they can not question them. so they may create a "safe" play zone, where "everything" goes, except there are a thousand rules in place to keep the "play" safe. if they believe that homework is something that must be done, they may do it much more thoroughly than expected and be anxious about imperfections and not confident about doing it in their own way and insisting that this way is better. but they are happy to not have homework. its weird when a person rocks that bart simpson image and you ask them out and they have no time because they are busy being lisa simpson.

unconscious Fe is a rigid idea of duty, conformity, loyalty or responsibility.

the person with inferior or tertiary Fe will escape social pressure when they can, but once they are in the gravity of such pressure they can not escape it and feel forced to produce whatever seems appropriate and most importantly nothing inappropriate. so they alternate between being an anarchist and setting a boastful example of proper conduct. they are happy to let you off the hook entirely, but if you commit to something, they judge you harshly for any particular failure to live up to that commitment. they don't ask for anything, but demand that everything should be taken care off. they don't feel compelled to deal with something right now, but feel very guilty for never accomplishing enough. their ideas of what conduct is generally called for may seem very liberal in nature, but those ideas are promoted aggressively and rejection of those ideas is judged harshly. they forgive but never forget. not that anyone forgets. but not anyone forgives. Fe conscious types don't. they would make a hierarchy game out of guilt. you would owe them reparation. but the individual with inferior Fe won't bother to keep track of that relationship. you are just unworthy, more than free to go.

inferior Se is a compulsive need to stay busy, to confront what is present.

the person with inferior or tertiary Se might alternate between being obsessing over something like household work on the one hand and being inconsistent about it on the other hand. they might have tools to clean up the house but those tools might pile up in a chaotic mess. they may have a lot of functional clothing but they are not compatible with each other in style and purpose and their complete outfit may be dysfunctional like a business suit with an apron over it. they crave order but leave a chaos behind. they intend to do a lot of things and will indeed get a lot of things done, but never exactly what they intended to do, because something else came in their way and they felt the compulsive need to deal with it. it looks like a total lack of nuanced priorities, while everything seems very important to them. they are always on their way to somewhere, but never make it anywhere in time, because of constant distractions that they can not reject. they collect functional objects like clothing that seem momentarily compelling without good discrimination of quality and it all piles up somewhere and is forgotten, but is still too appreciated to be thrown away. whenever they review it, its compelling again, because its the object, not their own need, that dictates its value. while people with Se can have a wasteful sense of abundance, people with unconscious Se have a sense of scarcity. they feel like they can not keep up taking care of the objective world, but absolutely have to. anyone else just takes the world for granted, it exists by its own devices, no need to bother with it. the Se conscious person feels a never ending freedom to mess with the world, unlike the person with inferior Se, who has a need to take care of it, to get the job done and be over it.

inferior Ne is an addiction to preserve generally given possibilities but a comparably weak ability to recognize unknown passing by possibilities.

the individual collects records or movies, which are worlds of possibilities but also ideas about patterns of process, which become prejudices. then the individual avoids the actual experience of or interaction with all of these patterns. they listen to the same 3 OLD record over and over again, ignoring the other 500 records or new releases. their prejudices evoke heavy anxieties, instead of helping them to feel prepared, when those patterns come along in life. they appreciate positions of power or responsibility, where they can make possibilities happen, but then they are indecisive about which possibilities are called for or most promising and really mostly prevent all possibilities. they are very aware of the most frequent possibilities of life, such as that of slipping into poverty, so they are very diligent in doing whatever has to be done to deal with those possibilities, but they can not be bothered to go out of their way to make something possible that is merely optional and attractive but unlikely to happen by itself, so they get the job and are unable to relax until its done, but they wont advance their worklife or strategy in great daring steps, which only adds to their sense of being enslaved by the impending doom implied by little rather meaningless work left undone. they only want responsibilities for predictable circumstances and force circumstances to become predictable by consciously fending off unpredictable possibilities.


these ideas are inspired by thinking of real world people in my life.
if i have mistyped those people, then my ideas may be wrong.
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Old 8th-January-2017, 11:49 AM   #43
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Inferior function as exaggerated.. is that like when I used to come onto the forum and post as a drunken jackass, or was that just me being a drunken jackass? hmm (inferior Se)

At the moment I would guess that you are Fe inferior (INTP)
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Old 8th-January-2017, 08:21 PM   #44
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Default Re: Guess My Inferior Function.

Out of all the things in MBTI that irk me, the inferior function stuff is at the top of the list.

Why is it so easy to mistake a dominant and inferior function? They should be nothing alike.

Do you think a lot? Maybe that's because you've got really well developed Ti... Or maybe it's because you've got really undeveloped Ti...? How should it even be possible for these things to be mistaken for one another?

IMO if you want to know your type, figuring out your inferior is the worst place to start, because it can't be meaningfully differentiated from your dominant *or* your shadow, which is real messed up. /rant
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Old 8th-January-2017, 10:15 PM   #45
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Default Re: Guess My Inferior Function.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadoblado View Post
Out of all the things in MBTI that irk me, the inferior function stuff is at the top of the list.

Why is it so easy to mistake a dominant and inferior function? They should be nothing alike.

Do you think a lot? Maybe that's because you've got really well developed Ti... Or maybe it's because you've got really undeveloped Ti...? How should it even be possible for these things to be mistaken for one another?

IMO if you want to know your type, figuring out your inferior is the worst place to start, because it can't be meaningfully differentiated from your dominant *or* your shadow, which is real messed up. /rant
Yeah I would agree. The inferior is the opposite of the dominant, so it's kinda the weak part of the psyche which compensates for the primary attitude of the type. But then there are the weak functions which don't directly oppose the dominant in such a manner. So surely it's much easier to type someone by comparing a strong function and a weak function than by comparing a weak function and another weak function, and the distinction is made by referring to the dominant function anyway.
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Old 9th-January-2017, 05:02 PM   #46
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Default Re: Guess My Inferior Function.

I think in people with schizophrenia or borderline PD or bipolar it is indeed close to impossible to figure out which is which, from an analytical third person point of view, because they are very much fused. "Analytical" means analysing the principles of their attitudes and behaviors. Such individuals voice attitudes that are nothing like what mbti profiles/cliches predict and are likely to have all kinds of test results. But you can still tell their type by comparing them to other individuals. As in using physiognomy or by knowing specific quirks of these types.

I was thinking of my father while writing this, btw. Not you guys. Not long ago i was somewhat confidently describing my father as ISTP, but now i see him as ENFJ. Same functions. But when i insert how i see his behavior into a test, the result will be ESTJ, which is the perfect mix of both, but makes no sense when i compare with profiles and makes no sense analytically either.
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Old 10th-January-2017, 06:58 AM   #47
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Default Re: Guess My Inferior Function.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadoblado View Post
Out of all the things in MBTI that irk me, the inferior function stuff is at the top of the list.

Why is it so easy to mistake a dominant and inferior function? They should be nothing alike.

Do you think a lot? Maybe that's because you've got really well developed Ti... Or maybe it's because you've got really undeveloped Ti...? How should it even be possible for these things to be mistaken for one another?

IMO if you want to know your type, figuring out your inferior is the worst place to start, because it can't be meaningfully differentiated from your dominant *or* your shadow, which is real messed up. /rant
agreed. While the inferior function inversely implies what's going on with the primary, there is a risk of erroneously conflating them in trying to diagnose it as a type's "overcompensation", such an accusation is probably in the responsibilities of a psychologist and not an everyday hobbyist.

Additionally I think the practice of typing by inferior socially serves as means of personal attack. In defining and expressing one's concept of the functions, a person exposes their typological (in)competency to critical opinion. It's easy to say someone is wrong or inaccurate, and so people are afraid of that. So instead they discuss the inferior which puts other people on the defensive to prove themselves otherwise, as the inferior represents all that's deficient and unpleasant within a type.

At the least I vote for describing the interplay between dom and inferior, which demands a neutral, positive or otherwise comprehensive review of a person.
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Old 17th-January-2017, 11:35 AM   #48
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Default Re: Guess My Inferior Function.

This link really helped me distinguish between INFP and INTP, I relate more to inferior Fe than Te. It talks about the way the inferior manifests itself and makes you feel for each function, you might find it helpful.

http://mbti-notes.tumblr.com/post/11...erior-function
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Old 11th-February-2017, 03:33 AM   #49
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Default Re: Everything CT

Clusters?

That fits with my idea i had several months ago.

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Anyway, beside this 2007 work, what are you doing now, in 2016?
I wrote that paper when I was 19 in high school. I had limited access to the history of A.I. back then. Right now I am not doing much. Mostly I research groups developing A.I. - Their are projects much more advanced than what I could do. I am working alone and progress is slow. One project I have seen is called Baby X - The man who made Baby X worked on the muscle simulator for the recent movie planet of the apes. I am not a neuroscientist or a graphics programmer. I think most of my ideas would work by I would need to embody then in a simulation with an avatar which I can't do. I have encountered a stealth company that utilizes cluster analysis and deep learning to understand the personality of Facebook users. The company is called "nametest" this is not some simple test that says "which harry potter character are you" it has serious A.I. behind it and personality profiles. My new idea that I am working on would be how to create clusters of perception and action in an agent so that it is the most efficient way to understand causality. It would automatically have representations of objects through invariance in time. When the agent sees and interacts with the world perception would categorize similarities in space and time. This is a way to create the same cognitive trait as object permanence child develop. Right now cluster analysis only represents 2D pictures. It can classify and recognize the breed of dogs or the models of a car. What would be different in the case of my design would be that 4D representations would have classifications. And the agents actions would be included. This way clusters of causality would have abstract representation. Just like human perception the A.I. would understand vectors of possible physics from the loop of perception an action. For example water would represented by a cluster of all interactions of water. This way any liquid is a cluster of cause / physical properties of similar effect. Water is a category that adheres the the cluster of 4D physical liquid. All dogs not only would be 2D clusters that are breeds would group similarly as in today's deep learning, but the 4D representational clusters of any dogs behavior would be modeled. Generalizations are then possible in the abstract sense because you could then combine clusters. For example the cluster stick can combined with the cluster box and the A.I. would understand that you can push a box off a table. This is where imagination comes in as a combination of causal clustering, the physics that are possible in relationship to known physics. Imagination would happen by forming loops between clusters in 4D physics space time. I really like this idea I have but I don't know enough about computers to implement it. From the "nametest" analysis, I cluster around a demographic of Facebook users. On facebook "nametest" says my IQ is 155. I took a real IQ test that says I am 113 but I like to pretend I am 155 because I have such cool ideas.


Auburn, where do I cluster? Facial expressions.

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Old 13th-February-2017, 08:17 AM   #50
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Default Re: The Typology Domain

I cannot see anything with my imagination and nothing with my introspection either. I discovered that the reason may be because I have brain damage on my left ventral stream. I still make those gestures but I see nothing when doing so.

The Visual Puzzles, Figure Weights, and Cancellation subtests might then be expected to be good measures of bilateral dorsal stream, right dorsal stream, and left dorsal/ventral stream integrity, respectively.

A blog I read says that Figure Weighs test is the highest correlated with mathematical ability. I scored 130 in Figure weights but 80 in cancellation. I now know where in the brain those two things are. It’s good to know because I think I have brain damage.

130 – 80 = 50 points difference. I like math but I make so many mistakes that I did not get that far in school. It is hard for me to see things on my right side.

These are my test scores and their brain regions:

Visual Puzzles 115 bilateral dorsal stream
Figure Weights 130 right dorsal stream
and Cancellation 80 left dorsal/ventral stream

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