Karma and Justice

[travelnjones]

Hi everyone

So I really don't know if have talked to much about my beliefs and such. I am going to generally lay them out so you can see where I am coming from. Then I will get into some abstract thoughts that I don't really have a thesis for. I am just upset by them.

Ok Travelnjones is pretty conservative christian. In that I am probably more on the right libertarian side of things. I honestly like fascism more than many left forms of government. My Christian faith is more of the Keirkegaard existential type. Metaphysical Solipsism was sort of forced on me by a series of experiences that have continued all my life. Ok that's me.

Ok, I have a problem with Karma and Justice. I don't believe in Karma to me its like thinking Justice just happens. I think we make justice happen, individuals who would rather not get involved stepping up and acting. I guess this sort of stepping up could be thought of as core as to why I do things.

Lately I am forced to see the laws set out as preventing any individual from stepping up. I'm an American so our laws may be different. But is it really possible to for us to step up for the wronged. Our laws prevent us from speaking out (Slander) acting out (Assualt). How in this world do we set things right. I am beginning to rethink the libertarian ideals of rights ending when it extends to another. And I am sure there are questions of who decides justice, but more and more I see it can not be our courts or the legal system. Our political representatives are worse.

I feel like our constitution granted us many freedoms from the government but we have regulated our own interactions so far that justice has died long ago.

Any thoughts

[Etheri]

Where your freedom ends, another person's freedom begins. If your acting and speaking instantly results in slander and assault, then I don't think the problem is being capable of stepping up. The problem would rather be the way in which you step up. You can help set right what you consider wrong in a civilised manner, i'm sure.

Besides, what gives you the means to judge others? How can you, as a christian, judge god his other creatures, those who Jesus told you to love, telling them when they are right and wrong?

Karma isn't fair, but no system is perfect. That being said, I agree it'd be naive to count upon faith to do it's job. (Unless you really want someone dead, in that case, give it time!)

[travelnjones]

yep i get stuff wrong all the time, In fact i think that is why it attracts me. The message of Christ is not for those who get it right. But rather those of us who seem to always get it wrong. Its not for the person to say at least I don't do this or that. It's to say by Jesus I am empowered and have a fighting shot against my own nature.

Jesus said love and I do not, I try and I don't. I am not meaning to be negative to you Etheri but that is often something you hear from people. But its sort of crazy and I often here it when people who are not christian saying those of us who are, when they are saying we are wrong. You are here on this INTP board with me. I am a person more or less like you. I have trouble with people they are a mystery. I don't understand people. I don't feel connected with them. Sometimes I wonder if anything exists outside of God/Jesus and myself.

But very specifically i see people who have used the law to crush other people. They have manipulated and lied so that another person loses all they hold dear. How is one to set that right. How is one to live in a society where you can't set it right.

[Etheri]

Jesus said he who is without sin throw the first stone. Is it up to you to change society, better and purify it, if you cannot even achieve such on yourself? I agree that society goes wrong in many places. However, these are my opinions. Who am I to deny other people their own opinions? And even in some, clear cut cases where people are being plain selfish, would I be any diffrent, who am I to judge them, let alone step up against them? Don't take me wrong, fighting the wrong is fine, but if I cannot uphold the standards i'm trying to defend myself, how can I push other people ?

The first step to improving society is improving yourself. Never forget that, as disconnected as we might be, we're still part of it. (Yes, that is indeed depressing).

Ps. As much as i'd be interested in discussing your religious views, I think it'd easily eat up the rest of your topic. If you want to discuss them, feel free to pm me. I promise I won't be offended when you tell me i'll be tortured in hell forever, and I deserve it. <3

[Da Blob]

Originally Posted by travelnjones

Hi everyone

So I really don't know if have talked to much about my beliefs and such. I am going to generally lay them out so you can see where I am coming from. Then I will get into some abstract thoughts that I don't really have a thesis for. I am just upset by them.

Ok Travelnjones is pretty conservative christian. In that I am probably more on the right libertarian side of things. I honestly like fascism more than many left forms of government. My Christian faith is more of the Keirkegaard existential type. Metaphysical Solipsism was sort of forced on me by a series of experiences that have continued all my life. Ok that's me.

Ok, I have a problem with Karma and Justice. I don't believe in Karma to me its like thinking Justice just happens. I think we make justice happen, individuals who would rather not get involved stepping up and acting. I guess this sort of stepping up could be thought of as core as to why I do things.

Lately I am forced to see the laws set out as preventing any individual from stepping up. I'm an American so our laws may be different. But is it really possible to for us to step up for the wronged. Our laws prevent us from speaking out (Slander) acting out (Assualt). How in this world do we set things right. I am beginning to rethink the libertarian ideals of rights ending when it extends to another. And I am sure there are questions of who decides justice, but more and more I see it can not be our courts or the legal system. Our political representatives are worse.

I feel like our constitution granted us many freedoms from the government but we have regulated our own interactions so far that justice has died long ago.

Any thoughts

Hello little one,
It seems as though we are traveling upon similar paths re:

I have trouble with people they are a mystery. I don't understand people. I don't feel connected with them. Sometimes I wonder if anything exists outside of God/Jesus and myself.

My Christian faith is more of the Keirkegaard existential type. Metaphysical Solipsism was sort of forced on me by a series of experiences that have continued all my life.

I refer to God as 'My God' and tell people to seek their own God, via a personal relationship with Him.

The short answer to the question concerning justice.

James 2:8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”a you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
11For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!

14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?

Matthew 5:7Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.

8Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.

9Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.

What to do about injustice? care for its victims and pray for them who have despicably used them. If one sees a crime in progress, one should act to intervene. However, this is not a cause for action limited to Christianity.

Christians have a long history of standing up for social injustice, but generally have used nonviolent methods to show Others the errors of their ways. America as a nation is a lost cause, too many worshipers of Mammon, IMO. I think it is important for Christians in today's America to focus on what can be done for our brothers and sisters around the globe and their horrible plights, instead of our own relatively mild discomforts. Do what we can for those much less fortunate than our own Selves, while we still have to power to do so. These are the Last Days...

[travelnjones]

Very generally i see society as an engine that makes the individual worse. Looking at an individual and thinking their change will do anything to society seems at odds to how i observe society to work. This is why I am concerned with inaction.I see our society going in a direction that sees anyone who says no to a thing as a bigot or small minded. This troubles me, it seems our course is one where no one stands up and we accept. If you do stand against something you are labelled evil.

But that is all very general. I am more concerned about someone who has worked to evict a friend and has lied and manipulated to do it. How do i just let their life go on happily with what they have done. Do I track them down and expose them to their kids and say are you proud of your dad? There are two sides to this of course. But people like this just make our society less than what it should be.

What of these minor injustices that we let stand? What if we didn't?

Etheri I really am not the best person to talk about faith. I struggle with my own all the time. I can tell you I do assume submission to Jesus Christ is the only route to salvation. And that only you can accept him, your salvation is yours mine is mine. I worry only about mine. I am not really a solid communicator outside of poetry, so I don't evangelize. I try to live treat people right, do as Leibniz said and go a bit out of my way to help people.

There is often this idea of hypocrisy for us Christians, I am not a Christian because I always got it right before i was Christian but rather because I so often got it wrong. There are plenty of things I am going to screw up every time and through God I sometimes succeed. I very much want to screw up that is the struggle.

There is this idea of weakness for those of us who have faith. Perhaps I am. I can rationally understand and end and that terrifies me at an existential level. I don't really know if other people have this powerful terror that goes through the blood. Its like fear and trembling to quote Kierkegaard. If that makes me weak ok. I tend to think most people don't really exist at the solipsistic crash state that I do and I don't know if they really posit an end like I do. Self is all i have.

If you are really interested check out the name Heshimu Collar. He did some recordings online that i like. I think he is pretty good a laying out things. I'm sure others will disagree.

[intpz]

Didn't read anything, I really am too lazy to do it at the moment, but regarding the title: I don't believe in anything that can't be explained by science - "if I do good, good will happen to me," I believe that whether you do good or bad, the outcome depends on the outcome of your action. After all, doing bad can give a good outcome, and vice-versa.

[Da Blob]

But that is all very general. I am more concerned about someone who has worked to evict a friend and has lied and manipulated to do it. How do i just let their life go on happily with what they have done. Do I track them down and expose them to their kids and say are you proud of your dad? There are two sides to this of course. But people like this just make our society less than what it should be.

What of these minor injustices that we let stand? What if we didn't?

Be angry, but sin not...

Would one rob God of His vengeance?

Hebrews 10: 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.