Can't stand ignorant teachers.

[NormannTheDoorman]

I go o a Christian school (a fundamentalist one). Why do you ask? Well on Guam it's the only school that actually teaches you. My bible teacher likes to bring up evolution allot, which if you didn't know already, he is against it. I finally snapped when he said this. "if evolution is true and survival of the fittest is true then what hitler did to the Jews must be morally acceptable. Because survival of the fittest says it's okay to kill" which survival of the fittest doesn't say that. I replied with a short answer, "that's not survival of the fittest".

He attacked me saying something completely off topic saying "how do you know that lying is wrong". I replied by simply saying "I was raised that way and we do have ethics". I am described by him as a rebellious teenager who likes to go against authority. He told me that when he sent me outside 4 days later for reasons I won't tell you.

I honestly don't know how to respond to such ignorance. He has said more on evolution but I wont get into that.

[Cognisant]

He told me that when he sent me outside 4 days later for reasons I won't tell you.

You can tell me.
I've been kicked out of a Sunday school and told never to return

I honestly don't know how to respond to such ignorance. He has said more on evolution but I wont get into that.

I'd just say to him calmly "With all due respect sir my beliefs are my business and if I choose to be a Christian, or not, that is solely my choice to make, and you ought to know that pushing your religious beliefs upon me in the classroom only serves to lessen my respect for both Christianity and yourself as a teacher"

Alternatively, "Actually the reason why the Nazies hated the Jews was because they were predominantly Chrisitian, Hitler himself even personally visited the Vatican and had close diplomatic ties with them".

Y'see why I was told never to return

[intpz]

Man... That'd be fun! I'd love to get into a nice argument with this guy.

[dala]

There's a saying that you should never argue with an idiot; they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. This is doubly true when you're dealing with petty bureaucrats and schoolteachers.

Basically, there is a time and place to be right at all costs, and a time and place to keep your head down and accept that you can't change the current circumstances. This is the latter, because you are not in a position to respond to this kind of ignorance in any effective way.

[Etheri]

Terminology : English is not my first language, i'm on about some 'sensitive' topics. I do not know which terminology is offencive by whom. I cannot please everyone. If you may be offended, simply don't read this. I can't help it if you're mad because I call someone 'eskimo' rather than 'inuït', simply because I do not know which term they prefer.

Originally Posted by NormannTheDoorman

finally snapped when he said this. "if evolution is true and survival of the fittest is true then what hitler did to the Jews must be morally acceptable.

The nazi's started using this excuse for the physically and mentally disabled. At first they sterilised them, it was only later that they started with 'euthanasia'. They just randomly moved the argument across to gypsies and jews. Obviously, the argument does not actually apply to these so called 'untermenschen'. There is NO scientific evidence. However, in light of plain science, one could argue in favour of the sterilisation of the disabled (altho it raises many moral questions, ofcourse!).

I'm not defending him, nor the nazi's, but you can't just associate something with nazi's to then say 'it's bad!'. The nazi's tested their drugs on jews. We jumped forwards YEARS in medicine just by that. Should people stop using medicine for that reason? We know howmuch electricity a human body can take BECAUSE THEY TESTED IT. It's cruel, immoral and quite frankly, to me rather insane, but a lot of this knowledge is still used across the globe.

He attacked me saying something completely off topic saying "how do you know that lying is wrong".

Do you know that lying is wrong? Is it always wrong? As house would say 'Everybody lies'. We all know about 'white lies', I don't need to make up examples to get my point across. Not only is his argument absolutely invalid, it's also wrong.

I am described by him as a rebellious teenager who likes to go against authority. He told me that when he sent me outside 4 days later for reasons I won't tell you.

If you're a rebellious teenager for being a teenager which dares to question what people tell him, who dares and can think for himself and make up his own mind, would that not be a compliment?

I honestly don't know how to respond to such ignorance. He has said more on evolution but I wont get into that.

If you want to argue with these people, it's from my experience both best and most interesting if you forget your initial beliefs. If you both go 'IT'S TRUE EVIDENCE SAYS SO!' vs ' NO IT DOESN'T IT'S WHAT GOD WANTED US TO BELIEVE' or something stupid, then you'll get stuck there very soon. Often, it's both more fun to just let them do most of the talking about why this or why that (which shouldn't be a problem since it's a teacher.), and raise well aimed questions whenever they go wrong. For example when he said lying is bad, don't agree with him, but come up with a situation where lying would (in most peoples opinion) be a good od thing.

That being said, it's unlikely you'll change his mind. It's quite likely many of your classmates will be stupid enough to defend his opinion. However, with the right arguments, questions, you may well be able to raise doubt. Perhaps not across on him, but you're in a room full of innocent kids still ready to learn anything. Don't forget that you can actually play with that.

PS. You can always say you're just playing devils advocate, regardless of your beliefs, in favour of discussion because the topic intriques you. It's called talking your way out of being sent to the principal. It might not stop him, but atleast it only gives you a stronger case.

Spoiler:

while I don't fully agree with this, it's still rather funny and often true.

@cog : I agree, and i've said plenty alike things quite often, but I think adding the part about him as teacher in general is overkill. We all know how he'll rage as you break his ego as well as his religion, and consider it an offence. I would never push just past the line, i'd just carefully walk the edge, and leave that small part out.

[intpz]

As Congnisant said, you can. But you're gonna be fucked in the ass by a priest... I mean kicked out of school.

[skip]

You'd better learn to deal with ignorant people as you're going to be running into them all of your life. Telling them off when they're in a position above you is generally not a good idea.

[thehabitatdoctor]

Point out that creation vs evolution is a false dichotomy and that going against evolution is akin to going against God, if indeed evolution is God's mechanism of creation.

[thehabitatdoctor]

Originally Posted by dala

There's a saying that you should never argue with an idiot; they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. This is doubly true when you're dealing with petty bureaucrats and schoolteachers.

That just means you throw them a rope and give them the opportunity to climb up, not sink down to their level (e.g. my first post in this thread).

Originally Posted by Cognisant

You can tell me.
I've been kicked out of a Sunday school and told never to return

Also, I second Cog.


I've been expelled from both a public and Catholic high school, in that order.

[Vladimir]

Originally Posted by dala

There's a saying that you should never argue with an idiot; they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Hehe, I've certainly heard this one before. I've even used it. The one thing I'd like to say about this is that, according to my current understanding, something like faith should not be forced onto others. It's as simple as this: people must think and decide for themselves--look at both the large and small picture, and make a conclusion, which should be returned to over time for re-examination. For many "religious" people, faith is simply a conviction that the "things" ("things" for lack of a better word or time to think of one) they have been raised with---community, family, friends---are the truths of the world. Whether that's the case or not, those people rarely stop to the think outside the boundaries of their upbringing and understand what they really believe in.
But yeah, as for ignorant teachers, I go to a public school, and have had to learn under a variety of teachers...none of which I would actually consider ignorant. I'm rather successful and don't choose to disrupt order. Consequently, I've rarely had any problems with teachers.
You didn't ask for advice, but you may want to consider simply subjecting yourself to his authority while you're at school, because that will prevent problems for you, your school, the teachers, and your family. Logically, it's better not to disrupt order. (In this situation)

[Lot]

First of all it's a Christian University. The assumption is that all or most of the students are christians. The teacher has every right to express his personal belief in class, that's why the school exists. As a religious person, I've had to listen to teachers make fun of my beliefs and strawman me for my entire educational history. I understand how much it pisses someone off to have that happen. The fact of the matter is that he's your teacher, arguing with him, when he's shown that he's not willing to change, is just going to cause you more trouble.

I'm not sure the laws of Guam, but maybe you should talk to his department head, or maybe speak to a school provided counselor. They can tell you what action can be done.

[NormannTheDoorman]

Originally Posted by Lot

First of all it's a Christian University. The assumption is that all or most of the students are christians. The teacher has every right to express his personal belief in class, that's why the school exists. As a religious person, I've had to listen to teachers make fun of my beliefs and strawman me for my entire educational history. I understand how much it pisses someone off to have that happen. The fact of the matter is that he's your teacher, arguing with him, when he's shown that he's not willing to change, is just going to cause you more trouble.

I'm not sure the laws of Guam, but maybe you should talk to his department head, or maybe speak to a school provided counselor. They can tell you what action can be done.

Not a christian university. A christian highschool. But thats aside the main point, there is just something when they bring up morality and evolution and belittle you. I have a reputation for going against authority, especially when authority lies to the masses. Which I can't stand. I don't mind him teaching his belief but I cannot stand lies.

[Lot]

Originally Posted by NormannTheDoorman

Not a christian university. A christian highschool. But thats aside the main point, there is just something when they bring up morality and evolution and belittle you. I have a reputation for going against authority, especially when authority lies to the masses. Which I can't stand. I don't mind him teaching his belief but I cannot stand lies.

I miss read. High school is a bit different case. I once failed a high school class, because I refused to write the answers that the teacher want me to. Arguing with teachers often makes thing worse, especially in front of other people. When you challenge an authority figures authority in public, they feel compelled to make an example of you. He has years on you and probably knows better conversation manipulation techniques than you. He'll play to his crowd. I've seen it happen first hand. You really should talk to him out side of class about how you disagree. Talking to school officials about this is probably something you should still keep in mind.

[Etheri]

Originally Posted by Lot

He has years on you and probably knows better conversation manipulation techniques than you. He'll play to his crowd. I've seen it happen first hand. You really should talk to him out side of class about how you disagree. Talking to school officials about this is probably something you should still keep in mind.

You give (most) highschool teachers far too much credit. If he mindlessly changed subject to 'why is lying bad' there, then I don't think he has these skills and can certainly (succesfully) be publically questioned. That being said, he will still have the authority to kick you out or anything else he pleases, so think about the consequences first.

[NormannTheDoorman]

It does make things worse. Sadly.

[Vrecknidj]

I live on Earth, which means I'm surrounded by liars and ignorant people. So are you. Unfortunately, at least one of them is playing a more inflammatory role in your life than is tolerable.

Nevertheless, if you're interested in advice (and you might not be), mine would be to bide your time and do your best to ignore his ignorance. Eventually, you will not be under his authority.

Dave

[EditorOne]

^ This. Patience is a skill worth developing. It is, however, hard work, especially in your teens.

[Roni]

Originally Posted by NormannTheDoorman

I am described by him as a rebellious teenager who likes to go against authority..
I honestly don't know how to respond to such ignorance.

What @dala said. In case you don't know (and Inferior Function Fe usually doesn't) arguing with teachers is a Bad Thing. Upsetting authority and all that. Makes most types uncomfortable. Uncomfortable people with power can ruin your life.
Absolute compliance is also a Bad Thing. The trick is deciding which battles are worth the risk.
/responsible adult

Two ideas:
* they teach Science at this school I hope? You could ask your science teacher innocent/relevent questions about scientific rigour. When your bible teacher uses an irrational creationist argumet against the mythical religion of evolutionism (aka A Lie) you can innocently challenge the misinformation/overgeneralisation/lie with "but Mr Science Teacher told me... "
Since he's got a thing about lies it would be fun to call him out on one.

The point here is to remind the bible teacher he is not a science teacher.

* read up on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution and hip n groovy young bible scholars like Carson T Clark. Pay attention in your bible class. When the teacher leaps from bible to pseudoscience challenge the bible passage he used with an alternative interpretation. Show him what a damn fine respectable student you are.

The point here is to remind the bible teacher he's supposed to be teaching practical theology.

[When I was a Catholic schoolgirl in the 70's religion teachers answered our questions before we'd even thought of them - eg they explained 7 day creation as metaphor for a long period of time like 7 eons. That we've returned to the Science vs Religion mentality of the Dark Ages in a single generation frequently astounds me. Maybe you younguns can start turning back the tide]

[Grove]

I’m with Vrecknidj & EO, calling this guy out would feel pretty good, but the repercussions of doing so probably aren’t worth that millisecond of glee. Plus, if this really is the only school in your area that teaches well, do you really want to risk being kicked out or further subjugated by the other teachers because you’re known as a rebel? & like others have said, there are plenty of closed-minded jerks out there just waiting to be told off. Save it for someone who doesn’t have so much power over you, or at least choose you battles wisely. I had to be told that constantly in high school. It took until my mid-twenties to really sink in.

[Puffy]

Slightly recursive, but I agree with Vrecknidj, EO and Grove. Only really posting for emphasis, getting kicked out of the only good school in your area probably isn't a very good idea and could hold you back in the long run.