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Forum Mafia Game #2

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Ok just gonna put this here before I go.
I have a very strong gut feeling jenny is scum but she's not here anymore
Urakro tho...:) flinging town reads like that is weird
Unvote jenny
Vote Urakro
 

Hadoblado

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I don't think Pmj is town?

Did I say that? Where?
 

Sinny91

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Nah, goph is probably town. At least if he is, it would really suck to lose him in a mis-lynch.

This seems to be all turning out to be another ESC/cheese lynch like the last game.

.

Agreed.

And my list had more detail than the previous game. Also, Zerk and Puffy were using my lists as an aid.

Lots of people posted whilst I composed the list too. I'm constantly lagging behind real time.
 

The Gopher

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Gopher put his vote on Happy right after Jenny's joke of, "he's too happy" but then he continued on to not actually pressure Happy at all, and instead went hard on his FOS on Hadoblado. So he votes Happy (severe) and only FOS's Hado, but then all his energy gets apparently directed at Hado, who Cheeseums actually voted.

Then he goes on to defend Cheeseums from Hado, trying to justify why Cheeseums' post is actually solid and he's his strongest town read.

His only original vote came on Bronto, after a bunch of people already aired suspicions about his lack of activity.
[/COLOR][/COLOR]

Which I continued as a joke saying YES WE FINALLY STARTED!

vote Happy

Obviously in a scum team with hado and thus terrified of me."

Then ended the joke saying.

"Seriously though"

Also the FOS on hado was an example which turned into a reality.

"Also you know you can use.

FOS HADO or something like that (finger of suspicion) which is probably better in case due to trolling a majority lynch happens. (Majority lynch was invented by the devil)"

Just to clear up. My only serious vote/Fos has been on Bronto.

I would have thought the humor/example was obvious. Either I'm not clear, you're biased and reading things in a negative light, or you're mafia trying to make the case with hado (hado could be town or scum in this scenario) as you think it might work.

Thanks for organizing that though.
 

The Gopher

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Ok just gonna put this here before I go.
I have a very strong gut feeling jenny is scum but she's not here anymore
Urakro tho...:) flinging town reads like that is weird
Unvote jenny
Vote Urakro

Really? Interesting could you elaborate? From my perspective Scum Urakro has no reason to back off me with hado, RB and maybe reluctant being suspicious of me. Now sure town reads are generally strange things for town to do but doing so in this case as scum would be unproductive.


Also Cheese get in here I'll start to have doubts if you don't hunt people soon. All you've done since the post I thought you were town on is say you think hado is town and back up my reasoning for town reading you.
 

Reluctantly

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What are your thoughts Cheese? Who are you most suspicious of?

Cheeseums needs to post a bit more, participate in finding mafia, and find his own conclusions. Otherwise, I'm suspicious of him, but Jenny the most because she seemed to obfuscate. But then there are a lot of lurkers and a lot of people posting seem to make a lot of sense and those reads are not very concrete. It might be too early to find mafia yet. Probably best to deal with the lurkers first.

Even just a 1-13 list if you aren't sure so we can question you on it and you can help town.

I'd like to do this with a detailed list, but I don't want mafia knowing everything that I think. Better to question for now, in my opinion. I think this is better to do later on, unless you can convince me otherwise.

@Bronto
@Pmj
@Jenny

All need to post, especially Pmj, since he's sometimes here, but says nothing relevant. If they don't post something that shows they are trying to find mafia, that's more suspect than reads on Jenny or Cheeseums.
 

The Gopher

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Add BWOP and it would limit him later if he wanted to vote me in a lynch. Mafia would probably want the possibility to vote anyone.
 

Helvete

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I dislike the idea of posting and using suspicion lists this early on* as it allows mafia to clearly see which people are suspicious of who and can easily manipulate that their own advantage. What do you think about this Gopher?

*if at all

Sinny, I want to know why hado is so suspicious to you? He has suspicions and has made gopher talk a lot which can only be a good thing. Yes it is early but is that only more reason to tunnel people? We are currently at a huge disadvantage as there is little information and mafia know pretty much everything. Saying tunneling is unnecessary makes absolutely no sense as the longer we procrastinate with spilling info the easier we make it for mafia to win.

Why does your dislike to hado's play style weigh him closer to mafia above other users?

Why exactly is RB smeared by hado's association? They like, have literally nothing to do with each other. The roles are randomly generated.

Why are you reading people based on your preference to them?

It's good to rely on intuition but you can't use it as a basis for all your convictions (@everypeoplehere) as it's such an easy cop out ruse for mafia to use so they look like scum hunting town.

Give me reason not to vote for you sinny.
 

The Gopher

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I'd like to do this with a detailed list, but I don't want mafia knowing everything that I think. Better to question for now, in my opinion. I think this is better to do later on, unless you can convince me otherwise.

@Bronto
@Pmj
@Jenny

All need to post, especially Pmj, since he's sometimes here, but says nothing relevant. If they don't post something that shows they are trying to find mafia, that's more suspect than reads on Jenny or Cheeseums.

Jenny needs a replacement right now so she won't be replying probably.

Yeah that's fair. I think 1-13 lists are technically considered a bad idea in mafia circles but I work best knowing peoples positions and questioning them on it. For example if you didn't know peoples positions is't harder to ask questions.

What do you think about Uroki?
 

Urakro

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Ok just gonna put this here before I go.
I have a very strong gut feeling jenny is scum but she's not here anymore
Urakro tho...:) flinging town reads like that is weird
Unvote jenny
Vote Urakro

That's very flattering, thanks.

Assuming your asking why I stopped hunting gopher, even though he makes little sense in how he's answering people's questions, ESC did the same thing. And just like ESC, I say at least gopher isn't shying away. He's there and responding. Just weirdly.

Unless you meant it's weird how all of a sudden I said I can't read you worth a shit. It's because I really can't. To me, it's just as likely you are playing mafia, or just playing town. I really couldn't imagine any difference.

You haven't really made anything really that convincing that you are for-sure town.
 

The Gopher

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I dislike the idea of posting and using suspicion lists this early on* as it allows mafia to clearly see which people are suspicious of who and can easily manipulate that their own advantage. What do you think about this Gopher?

Sigh, as I said before I agree in general. I'm just selfish and want to be able to solve the game myself. I do that with more information better. It benefits my play style to have that information but at this point we could be better off with cases. I generally only ask people who I want more from. For instance I wanted Sinny to do more and go after people more and now we can question her on why she things hado is the big bad.

So it has up and down sides I just like working with the upsides.
 

redbaron

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I'm asking why you DO think he's town.

EBWOP: or if you think he's scum, elaborate on that anyway. I assumed you thought he was town because you said you weren't going to vote for him. Unless you were just baiting him and I just ruined it :^)
 

Hadoblado

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Err

I don't think he's town. <- a statement.

Sorry, I was ambiguous before. To my knowledge I have not indicated that I think he's in any way town. Now I worry that I've accidentally his name for someone else's. Where do I imply that I think Pmj is town?
 

Reluctantly

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Urakro started the game trying to suggest "soft-rules" in order to trap mafia in inconsistencies. Uroki's seems to have been trying to distinguish between what helps town and what doesn't; the rhetoric for town motivations has been easy for me to follow and I agreed with most of it; I also could follow Uroki's attacks and how they were open to changing their mind when questioning showed consistency and sense.

If Urako is mafia, I've got no read at all, so wow. Seems highly likely to be Town. But this is a game where I can't really take anything for granted, so I don't know what that's worth.
 

redbaron

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Err

I don't think he's town. <- a statement.

Sorry, I was ambiguous before. To my knowledge I have not indicated that I think he's in any way town. Now I worry that I've accidentally his name for someone else's. Where do I imply that I think Pmj is town?

Oh that's my bad then.

I was going off this post.

It looked like you were trying to get him to contribute more, so that he wouldn't be an easy target for actual mafia to deflect attention to. I assumed you had a town read and didn't want him to get lynched because of that.

Anyway, the reason I think Pmj is town:

He's new as far as I know, and I think that the mental pressure that mafia feel in early games would prevent a new player from playing the whole, "I've got a horse head and a tommy-gun, hehe look at me I'm mafia! Or am I?!?! xD!!!!" shtick.

It's a ballsy gambit for actual mafia to do, and I don't think Pmj is the type to do it. I think he's just being an edgelord like Happy, I read Happy as town last game for the same reason. I guess that's pretty tenuous reasoning, but right now it's more reason to think him town than I have for some other people.

I have Terrible Town reads coming out of my ears right now, so I'm trying to discern which ones are actually town and then work from there.
 

Hadoblado

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I think that so far he is a mild red read.

He came in here and 'poked' without achieving anything. He implies he's played before, but if so, why did he expect that gentle a poke to elicit a response?

He's done nothing while being present -> red read.

I don't want to vote for him, because I want a vote with a meaningful outcome. If he is town, we get nothing. I would prefer that the cop checks them instead so that town doesn't waste an entire day for something worse than a no-lynch in the (still likely) event that he's green.

What I mean when I say it's likely he's green is that his base rate is 75% green. Even if my mild read on him moves that read by 5%, he's still 70% green. Wait did I actually say I wouldn't vote him? I thought I said I would? Can't be arsed going back over for such a minor detail. I will vote him to secure a lynch, but I won't be gunning for him. He knows he's in deep shit if he doesn't do something soon, my efforts are best directed elsewhere.
 

Reluctantly

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Well, nevermind I guess Urakro thinks Gopher doesn't make sense. But I thought Gophers answers, although haphazard, when he answered questions directly they made sense to me from a Town perspective.

Anyway, I want Pmj to post more. I'm considering voting him, unless he does.
 

Hadoblado

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I see that persona as something very possible for a first time mafia to do.

Humour is social lubricant, as mafia you don't want to be going in dry. Joking around until you see which way is up is something both a town and a mafia would do if it were their first time. I think I lost my first game whiteknighting a first time player who was a joker who happened to be scum also.

That is, if it is his first time. Did I reading comprehension fail when I thought I read him referring back to past games?
 

Reluctantly

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What I mean when I say it's likely he's green is that his base rate is 75% green. Even if my mild read on him moves that read by 5%, he's still 70% green. Wait did I actually say I wouldn't vote him? I thought I said I would? Can't be arsed going back over for such a minor detail. I will vote him to secure a lynch, but I won't be gunning for him. He knows he's in deep shit if he doesn't do something soon, my efforts are best directed elsewhere.

Honestly though, if he is Town, he's not helping anything by not really participating. Worse case, you lose an inactive Town. Best case, he is mafia. And if he has played this game before, wouldn't he want to participate as Town? Otherwise, what's the point? As mafia though, I could see the potential in holding off and getting a chance to read the playing field.

I have no problem voting him at this point.
 

Sinny91

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Sinny, I want to know why hado is so suspicious to you? He has suspicions and has made gopher talk a lot which can only be a good thing. Yes it is early but is that only more reason to tunnel people? We are currently at a huge disadvantage as there is little information and mafia know pretty much everything. Saying tunneling is unnecessary makes absolutely no sense as the longer we procrastinate with spilling info the easier we make it for mafia to win.

Okay, so I shouldn't have just said 'Tunnelling', when I actually meant to say 'Hado's tunelling'. In short, I don't trust his judgment, his ability to discern.

Why does your dislike to hado's play style weigh him closer to mafia above other users?[/QUOTE]

I find it difficult to believe a Townie could contradict my intuition so much. I agree with a number of others on a number of issues. But I experience the most contradiction with Hado. I'm currently listening to my gut, but my brain refrains me from acting on it, because logically, my brain knows my gut could be wrong.

Why exactly is RB smeared by hado's association? They like, have literally nothing to do with each other. The roles are randomly generated.

Well, this is the second game now in which Baron claims he can Vulcan Mind Meld with Hado, and he just knows he's right. I don't buy it. At this stage in the game, unless your mafia, you know shit.

Why are you reading people based on your preference to them?

It's good to rely on intuition but you can't use it as a basis for all your convictions

I have no convictions at this stage in the game.

give me reason not to vote for you sinny.

I have weed if you want some, and I've been up all night paying attention, has everybody else been this dedicated?
 

Urakro

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I'm trying to wrap my head around this situation.

So let's imagine we have a really strong scum read. I'm gonna make my case, and drop the big bold red vote on that person.

Then what? I'm thinking obviously I'd stick around to see how they respond. Especially when I know they are right there and online.

No, I wouldn't drop that red bomb then shalala off I go somewhere else.

Ok just gonna put this here before I go.
I have a very strong gut feeling jenny is scum but she's not here anymore
Urakro tho...:) flinging town reads like that is weird
Unvote jenny
Vote Urakro

Where are you going? Come talk to me.
 

The Gopher

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Unvote Bronto

vote PMJ

Taking into account Hado's reasoning and my own. Both have done nothing, but PMJ has visibly done nothing (sorry) compared to Bronto invisibly doing nothing.

If this continues I would lynch PMJ (as bronto is more 50-50 lurker where as PMJ is more 65-whatever the other number is Lurker) and ask the cop to read Bronto.

I'm gonna look into zerg as I also have trouble reading her and happy probably after.
 

redbaron

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I think that so far he is a mild red read.

He came in here and 'poked' without achieving anything. He implies he's played before, but if so, why did he expect that gentle a poke to elicit a response?

He's done nothing while being present -> red read.

I don't want to vote for him, because I want a vote with a meaningful outcome. If he is town, we get nothing. I would prefer that the cop checks them instead so that town doesn't waste an entire day for something worse than a no-lynch in the (still likely) event that he's green.

What I mean when I say it's likely he's green is that his base rate is 75% green. Even if my mild read on him moves that read by 5%, he's still 70% green. Wait did I actually say I wouldn't vote him? I thought I said I would? Can't be arsed going back over for such a minor detail. I will vote him to secure a lynch, but I won't be gunning for him. He knows he's in deep shit if he doesn't do something soon, my efforts are best directed elsewhere.

I actually thought he was brand new, so my theory of why he's Town just went out the window.

Pmj now demoted from Terrible Town to possible mafia.
 

Helvete

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@Helvete
Because it's basically a no-lynch, and I don't believe Bronto would lurk this hard as scum by intention. Either he wanted to be scum and isn't, he was thrown in the game off the back of a flippant remark, or he's changed his mind about wanting to play.

I don't think pressuring Bronto the way people have been would make a town bronto want to play. He's more likely to be turned off playing by all the time, effort, and pressure he'd suffer by playing.

Lynching bronto gives us no information (other than I guess, giving everyone a knee-jerk scum read on me for defending him). Leave it to the cop to check him so that we don't have to waste time lynching lurkers.

It's also wasting town attention and absorbing the pressure they would otherwise exert.

I read him as mildly (and I mean mildly) green, because a scum bronto would be more likely to come in and troll us than to sit idly by. If anything was behind the urge for him to sign up, it was the possibility of that scenario. There are many lynches I'd prefer over Bronto, either because they're more red, or because they'd give us more information.

How is it basically a no lynch? It prevents scum from easily slipping through without having to lift a finger like artsu. I understood what you meant about bronto and I was asking more generally, sorry I could of phrased it better to begin with.
I still don't really get this though. Yes we'll have more information to work from after a mis lynch, which will most likely happen at this stage. We gain a slight information advantage at the cost of an active town and are still left with the problem of potential lurking scum.

I doubt we'll manage to lynch scum D1 (I really want this to get proved otherwise) and think a cop read on an inactive would be a waste. You checked Puffy for a potential ally and got lucky, we need this kind of information at this point and rather than finding out by mis lynch we can learn by more forgiving methods.

I also disagree with your read on bronto btw. I doubt his alignment would change his opinion on whether he'd want to play or not. Even if it were just to toll I'm sure he'd do that regardless.
 

The Gopher

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How is it basically a no lynch? It prevents scum from easily slipping through without having to lift a finger like artsu. I understood what you meant about bronto and I was asking more generally, sorry I could of phrased it better to begin with.
I still don't really get this though. Yes we'll have more information to work from after a mis lynch, which will most likely happen at this stage. We gain a slight information advantage at the cost of an active town and are still left with the problem of potential lurking scum.

I doubt we'll manage to lynch scum D1 (I really want this to get proved otherwise) and think a cop read on an inactive would be a waste. You checked Puffy for a potential ally and got lucky, we need this kind of information at this point and rather than finding out by mis lynch we can learn by more forgiving methods.

I also disagree with your read on bronto btw. I doubt his alignment would change his opinion on whether he'd want to play or not. Even if it were just to toll I'm sure he'd do that regardless.

So out of the two, at this point. Which would you prefer to lynch?
 

Hadoblado

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@Pmj
Have you played before and if so, how many times?
 

Urakro

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Um, pmj had business meetings, a socialization, and a wife. It could be partly bullshit.
 

Reluctantly

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...
YOU MUST POST AT LEAST 3 CONTENT RELATED POSTS EACH 24 HOUR PERIOD
...

Ah and don't forget, those lurkers that don't post need to post something or I think they get modkilled. So no need for the cop to waste checking one or for town to lynch one either.

just saying,
 

The Gopher

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I don't think think a cop read on an inactive is necessarily a waste. I mean chances are you aren't going to lurker lynch twice without good reason. This way in one day you get two lurkers out of the game and can move forwards. Now sure the chance to hit an active mafia is small with a huge pay off but this would be the safest line of play. Or you know... the cop could always go for me or hado or whoever the most actively against each other at the time.
 

Hadoblado

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@Everyone
DO NOT LYNCH UNTIL THE LAST 12 HOURS

The only reason you should want an earlier lynch as town is if you are dead certain of someone, and day one you can't have that level of certainty. This should go without saying, but the way people are phrasing things it's as if they want to lynch sooner rather than later. Both Gopher and I agree on this. We need time to milk more information, and to better discuss. We also don't want to mis-lynch Hado while he's unable to defend himself again (you twats).
 

The Gopher

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Um, pmj had business meetings, a socialization, and a wife. It could be partly bullshit.

Yeah but he's an INTJ he probably has all that going on. That said he's an INTJ he's probably really efficient.

Ah and don't forget, those lurkers that don't post need to post something or I think they get modkilled. So no need for the cop to waste checking one or for town to lynch one either.

just saying,

Now that's a good point. We might not have to worry about bronto at all.
 

Helvete

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So out of the two, at this point. Which would you prefer to lynch?

I have no idea, both would be fine. Although at least pmj has said he will post more. What about jenny though, if there is no replacement (the game took long enough to kick off to begin with so I'll be surprised if there is) don't you think she'll just turn into another lurker?
 

The Gopher

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@Everyone
DO NOT LYNCH UNTIL THE LAST 12 HOURS

The only reason you should want an earlier lynch as town is if you are dead certain of someone, and day one you can't have that level of certainty. This should go without saying, but the way people are phrasing things it's as if they want to lynch sooner rather than later. Both Gopher and I agree on this. We need time to milk more information, and to better discuss. We also don't want to mis-lynch Hado while he's unable to defend himself again (you twats).

Yeah actually 100% this, this is also why majority lynch in a newbie game (which this kinda is) gives too much power to mafia and should die in a fire. In fact if anyone pushes for a lynch when the guy isn't here to defend himself (unless it's the last hours cause then people could just afk strat) then that's really suspicions.

With that in mind is there anyway to count symbolic votes? Cause a lot of people seem happy lynching PMJ atm and while unlikely I may as well switch to a FOS until the last day or so.

Unvote PMJ

FOS PMJ
 

Hadoblado

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@Reluc
Cop reading people that haven't given either red or green reads is the sweet spot. Yes I wanted to scope out a potentially competent ally with Puffy, but he also fell within the range of null reads. People that have given tells one way or another are far less of a threat, either because they're less likely to be mafia, or because town has already picked up on them.

My second check was (or would have been if I wasn't a moron at checking the night cycle) also on Artsu, who gave a similar lack of information about himself. Both correct.

The cop allows town to not get caught up in wifom over non-active members. They are a great boon. There's far less point in checking a member who's very active who's giving tells left, right, and center.
 

Hadoblado

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And yes it's possible he gets modkilled Reluc. I tend not to play around those sorts of possibilities, but it doesn't detract from my point that we shouldn't vote him.
 

Urakro

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That was post #251. Zerkalo decided to vote me for taking my suspicion off gopher.

Not that I'm mad or want revenge. It's just that she also said she's skampering away and it seems, she did just that.

I don't get it.
 

The Gopher

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Yeah need answers for that, I posted my questions as well but we'll just have to wait till she come back for both the answers and the reasons why she left after voting.
 

redbaron

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Um, pmj had business meetings, a socialization, and a wife. It could be partly bullshit.

Yeah and Artsu had a psychotic breakdown :rolleyes:
 

Urakro

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I mean sure, could she be mafia again?

Though you can roll a 5 on a die, and that roll is done and over with. The chance of rolling another 5 is the same as before.

But rolling a 5 is 16%. Rolling a mafia role is 23%.
 

Sinny91

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I have no idea, both would be fine. Although at least pmj has said he will post more. What about jenny though, if there is no replacement (the game took long enough to kick off to begin with so I'll be surprised if there is) don't you think she'll just turn into another lurker?

I assume that Jenny was just getting warmed up. She was in an amused mood in the pre mafia thread, I presume that the amused mood spilled over into the start of this game.

I was under the impression that she was looking forward to playing. Not sure what came up... Maybe she could return yet.
 

Helvete

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That was post #251. Zerkalo decided to vote me for taking my suspicion off gopher.

Not that I'm mad or want revenge. It's just that she also said she's skampering away and it seems, she did just that.

I don't get it.

I would like to know Sinny's stance on this?
Bearing in mind you gave her a town read last game too, what do you see that is different in her play from last game to this game?
 

PmjPmj

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I don’t have time to go through and select specific quotes, but:

Someone asked me what I thought of Sinny’s list (1)
Someone asked me to comment further (2)

1: Not much. The reasoning is within 2.

2: It’s day one. There is no lynch for another two days (I believe). Effectively, all people are doing at the moment is running around, banging drums and throwing wild accusations at one another. Either I’m missing something here, or you’re a bunch of unbelievably inept players who fail to understand both the nature of the game and other meatbags.

Let’s look at this realistically:

Mafia games are - regardless of whether you want to believe this or not - a popularity contest, just like many other things in life. Such is the nature of humans.

Therefore, I would recommend some investigative probing as to who has ‘insies’ with QT; find that out, and you’re likely to have a fair punt at who has a special role (this includes mafia). From there, we can monitor those people and their behaviour. This is of course operating outside the parameters of the game and could therefore perhaps be construed as cheating, but it’s certainly an avenue to explore for those with time. Insights garnered could be kept on the back burner to hopefully make better informed future decisions.

Speculative: people like myself (on the outside of the community) have very little / no hope in hell of getting anything other than a generic townie role. This isn’t verifiable to any real degree for obvious reasons, but… I mean, it is kind of obvious. I barely know anyone here. I’m therefore a wildcard; I’m not going to be trusted with a ‘fun’ role because QT has no idea who I am or what I’m about. I’d be a risk to his game. Unwise move on his part to elect me as anything other than a boring role. If you don’t see any validity to this reasoning, you’re wrong.

Secondly, one does not simply make an informed decision re: the first lynch. Or the second, most often. Everyone is an unknown. All we can do is sit back and let the patterns reveal themselves. Humans are fallible, and even the best mafia players will trip over themselves eventually if pressure is applied in the right places.

All we have to go on at the moment is how a person votes. At this stage in the game, that is likely an arbitrary decision at best, and anybody - mafia included - have plenty of wriggle-room to claim that it was an oopsie and move on unhindered.

It’s too early in the game, and there isn’t enough data. Some of you have insights into one another’s character, and that’s cool - but I’m shooting blind. That I am not yet contributing anything of worth does not preclude the possibility that I’m sat here, odd interjection aside, weighing arguments and observing behaviour. Patterns will inevitably emerge.

All of this ruckus may be fun, but it’s misguided. There seems to be this idea that by speaking up and defending yourself, you’re less likely to be a mafia player. What? Are you joking? This humdrum is fertile grounds for mafia. You don’t know shit about who’s who yet. You’re operating on shaky beliefs and a distinct lack of data.

The patterns will reveal themselves. Sit down, shut up and watch. The first lynch may not be telling; the second may be largely uneventful - but by the third, I’m willing to bet we can start getting a clearer picture of who’s who.

Do I have any suspicions thus far?

Yes, but I need to see more. My vote for Sinny remains in place, because (bearing in mind I’m operating on limited data) I immediately distrust anyone who asserts themselves as some kind of authority (oh the hypocrisy) in an overt manner. I don’t know if she’s town or not - nobody does. It’s all a shit shoot.

Again, apologies for incoherence. I’m typing in work and keep getting interrupted.

TL;DR your approach is ineffective and you’re all shit.

<3
 

Urakro

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Yeah and Artsu had a psychotic breakdown :rolleyes:

Not saying he's town. At best, he's still just a lurker.

Having a wife and business meetings is a much better lie than a psychotic breakdown. But I shouldn't even go there.

Just like my very first suspicion of you, I stated there could be many reasons.
 

Hadoblado

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How is it basically a no lynch? It prevents scum from easily slipping through without having to lift a finger like artsu. I understood what you meant about bronto and I was asking more generally, sorry I could of phrased it better to begin with.
I still don't really get this though. Yes we'll have more information to work from after a mis lynch, which will most likely happen at this stage. We gain a slight information advantage at the cost of an active town and are still left with the problem of potential lurking scum.

I doubt we'll manage to lynch scum D1 (I really want this to get proved otherwise) and think a cop read on an inactive would be a waste. You checked Puffy for a potential ally and got lucky, we need this kind of information at this point and rather than finding out by mis lynch we can learn by more forgiving methods.

I also disagree with your read on bronto btw. I doubt his alignment would change his opinion on whether he'd want to play or not. Even if it were just to toll I'm sure he'd do that regardless.

Okay so:
1 - no lynches are bad because they allow the NK agenda to creep forward while we don't get information
2 - lurkers and facetious persons don't give any information about themselves
3 - if a person gives little information about themselves, lynching them can't possibly give much information
4 - lynching lurkers gives little to no information
5 - for the same reason no-lynching is bad, lynching lurkers is bad

People typically pressure lurkers by threatening to lynch them. That's good, as it forces activity. But people don't actually want to lynch lurkers. Hence why mafia like to lurk, they want to play chicken.

But cops break that pattern. They can make town win the game of chicken without wasting any town time. So we don't need to lynch them, we just leave open the possibility that the cop will check them.

FYI I do change my pattern on this a fair bit. Sometimes I will call the bluff, sometimes I won't. It's not something I allow myself to be held to (aka not a good thing to read me off). Right now I think we've got better things to do than settle for lynching lurkers, and I see a lot of attention being thrown at the lurkers with little to no objection. People had issue with me going after gopher, but nobody had issue with the lurker thing, despite it being pretty obvious that there were ulterior motives (whether the people in question be town or scum).

Also: Lynching mafia is possible day one. Don't give up on that dream. Just don't bank on it. Just focus on increasing the chance of us lynching mafia, and assume the worst case scenario where we don't. I don't know the statistics for this, but they're not damning for town. Gopher probably knows them.
 

Reluctantly

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yeah...it's odd. But she was also the one to suggest not reading too far into things. And her play style is a bit different this time, more engaged at questioning and evaluating people. In the other game she was sitting back and making weird logical connections to draw attention away from her and make other people question their own conclusions.

I'd to see where she's going with this. I think I'm going to go for a bit, go to sleep soon. Looking forward to see if any lurkers post soon.

*waits*
 

Reluctantly

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EBWOP above post was in reference to Urakro about Zerkalo.
 

Helvete

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I mean sure, could she be mafia again?

Though you can roll a 5 on a die, and that roll is done and over with. The chance of rolling another 5 is the same as before.

But rolling a 5 is 16%. Rolling a mafia role is 23%.

Yeah it's perfectly plausible so I just want to look for the differences in play. I have some ideas but would like some things answered first :P
 
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