How has this forum effected you spiritually?

[NoID10ts]

It's simple. I'm just curious if these faith threads have any impact on anyone at all. I kept the poll as broad as I could to include everyone. If there is a way to refine this let me know and we can shut it down and start a new one.

Since you joined this forum are you:

- more theistic/spiritual now.
- unchanged
- more atheistic now

I tried to phrase this to also include agnostics who may find themselves leaning a bit one way or the other and people of faiths other than Christianity.

EDIT: Sorry, I just got the poll up. It's private, BTW.

[TheHmmmm]

It's simple. I'm just curious if these faith threads have any impact on anyone at all. I kept the poll as broad as I could to include everyone. If there is a way to refine this let me know and we can shut it down and start a new one.

Since you joined this forum are you:

- more theistic/spiritual now.
- unchanged
- more atheistic now

I tried to phrase this to also include agnostics who may find themselves leaning a bit one way or the other and people of faiths other than Christianity.

Every thread on religion feeds me.Either it reinforces what I already know, or it introduces something new. It'd take some pretty impressive arguing to change my mind, though (cryptonia has been recommended, so I'd be fascinated to hear his/her answers to my questions). So unchanged, I guess when you want to look strictly at my spirituality.

Oh, and might wanna change it to "affected"

[Ermine]

The religion threads haven't increased my level of spirituality as much as they have increased my level of perspective. The main example of this is that I get to see the perspective of more atheists and agnostics here than I'd ever meet IRL. This has reinforced my beliefs by forcing me to continually reexamine my beliefs and why I believe and do what I do. It's also given me practice stating and explaining my own beliefs in a coherent manner.

And while I'm not a big fan of religious debate, I can't help but be impressed by the arguments some people here present, though they tend to get redundant after a while.

[Da Blob]

Despite my hard-line approach, I really do not wish for either agnostics or atheists to "Go to Hell" just because no one would listen to them and validate their POVs, immature as they might be. Spirituality is not as aspect of ones life that should just be summarily dismissed as complete nonsense and superstition early in one's life. Even the stupid people in the world can derive real benefit by entertaining a spiritual perspective.

That being said I have not gotten much from participation in the "God threads' as apparently there is little respect given to Christ or Christians by many forum members as evidenced by the "Sick of God threads" thread and many comments on such threads. Most Christians are driven away from this forum by the rude and adolescent comments. However, my last job was in a prison, so I am quite accustomed to that level of respect. I eventually gained the respect of the inmates who were my clients and I believe that eventually i might gain the respect of some of you "criminals" as well...

I have been forced to put into words, thoughts and vague musings concerning my own spirituality, in order to respond to the occasional thought-provoking comment. If I was not a member, challenged to explain my Self and my views - those thoughts and musings would have remained as intangible as wisps of vapor and just disappeared. Now at least those mental images are connected to words and have acquired substance of a kind... So I may have grown spiritually, in that I have expressed what had been just mere impressions...

[Ashenstar]

Honestly, this forum has not effected my spirituality at all.

It's rare for anyone or anything to affect something so personal to me, such as my spirituality. For the most part that would all come from within myself.

That is one reason why I am so astounded when someone or something does have an influence on me.

[Agent Intellect]

I'm having a difficult time thinking of how I would answer. I'm still a bit foggy on what exactly 'spiritual' means. I suppose I have grown spiritually in that my worldview has expanded. Before the discourse on this forum, I was pretty much a hard nosed, science driven atheist. Because of the various conversations here, I have taken a much more philosophical and open minded approach to the topic of religion and spirituality - although I remain forever skeptical.

My views on the existence of God, spirituality, or metaphysics has shifted frequently, but stays within the realm of agnosticism. The only thing I would say I'm really atheist about is the idea of exalting any sort of prophet or holy book as having answers that I myself could not make up right on the spot. As far as some sort of [higher power; spirituality; metaphysics etc], I would probably put myself at a 5 on Richard Dawkins scale (http://christophersisk.com/dawkins-belief-scale-images/), but as far as any man-made religious doctrines, ideologies or dogmas go, I'd put myself at 6.5ish.

[tashi]

Honestly, this forum has not effected my spirituality at all.

It's rare for anyone or anything to affect something so personal to me, such as my spirituality. For the most part that would all come from within myself.

That is one reason why I am so astounded when someone or something does have an influence on me.
Yup, you said it for me.
2 years of catholic school didn't do anything, so I really can't see why a forum would have an effect on my spirtuality (but maybe that's just me).

[Jennywocky]

I'd already thought about all these questions pretty deeply before, I haven't really picked up any new ones here. I can imagine that people who haven't really looked at other points of view could jolted or disturbed, however.

[echoplex]

I'm actually going to say it's made me more spiritual, although I hesitate because I'm not sure if "spiritual" is the right word. I can relate to what AI is saying about gaining new perspective, and I think the perspective of many here has, if nothing else, made me much more open-minded about, well, the universe, which is a bit humbling 'cause I've always thought of myself as open-minded.

I still consider myself to be agnostic, although ignostic might be a better term. Yet I find that I'm more and more in awe of the universe and life in general. Is that God? Perhaps it is. Perhaps I'm in awe of God's creation and I simply don't call it "God". So many of these discussions seem to come down to semantics, imo. Religion mostly annoys and confuses me, and yet I appreciate the perspectives of the theists here. The Christians here are probably the coolest ones I've ever come across.

That being said I have not gotten much from participation in the "God threads' as apparently there is little respect given to Christ or Christians by many forum members as evidenced by the "Sick of God threads" thread and many comments on such threads. Most Christians are driven away from this forum by the rude and adolescent comments.

Oh, come on now! I think (or thought) we all know that thread is just a playful joke. I think we all get a little tired of the seemingly endless God debates sometimes and that thread provided a good outlet for the frustration and annoyance such debates are likely to cause. I think it's certainly preferable to blow off steam with a sense of humor than to have God arguments descend into insults, which I think has happened a few times.

I, for one, will say that I respect the Christians here. And I hope that no one, regardless of religious beliefs, is being driven away by rude comments. Although I think it's inevitable that such topics will occasionally yield comments perceived as rude by many. I don't think this is usually intentional though.

[fullerene]

Every thread on religion feeds me.Either it reinforces what I already know, or it introduces something new. It'd take some pretty impressive arguing to change my mind, though (cryptonia has been recommended, so I'd be fascinated to hear his/her answers to my questions). So unchanged, I guess when you want to look strictly at my spirituality.

Oh, and might wanna change it to "affected"

oh geez... who recommended me? :phear:

I'd answer, but you'll get a lot of wishy-washy answers at the moment. For several years, I held a certain branch of theology that made a lot of sense, logically consistent, surprisingly deep, etc... and that's probably what most people on the forum know me by. I heard a very good argument, though (christian to christian argument, so it was pretty much just biblically based), for something completely different... which is also pretty consistent (though I think less so, I haven't had a whole lot of time to wonder about the rough patches in it yet, so that's expected), seems biblically respectable, but also seems a whole lot more likable from a non-christian viewpoint too.

so I'd answer if you had a bunch of 'how would christian people account for X?' questions, but you'll probably get a whole lot of "one set of people say it's like M, but this other set say it's like N... depending on some generally opinion-judgment of what sounds more likely--which might be frustrating for you.

I'm also not about to put a lot of thought into anything for another 4-5 days or so. It's the end of the semester, and I've a tremendous amount of work to do. I've actually planned out my work practically hour by hour, in order to get it all done on time and keep my sanity. After that I'd be happy to put some effort into responses, though.

(on the plus side, we have a fully functional chess-playing bot for today's work :)).


oi... and don't worry, echoplex, I didn't, and don't know of anyone else either, who has been offended by the "sick of god threads club". For a while in there I almost joined in... 'cept that I'm not usually such a joking person. It really just depends on what types of god-threads are around at the time. I strongly doubt you have to worry about people being driven away from here because of something like that.

[Xel]

I have become more spiritual since joining but it has nothing to do with the forum. To be honest I get angry alot when I read the religion threads here. I know thats irrational and foolish but it annoys be when people come at the religion issue in a way I consider foolish. Because of this anger, this forum actually hinders me spiritually (unless I'm feeling particularly detached that day).

But sometimes there is alot of information in those threads too and I should read them more and get over myself.

[Firehazard159]

Despite my hard-line approach, I really do not wish for either agnostics or atheists to "Go to Hell" just because no one would listen to them and validate their POVs, immature as they might be. Spirituality is not as aspect of ones life that should just be summarily dismissed as complete nonsense and superstition early in one's life. Even the stupid people in the world can derive real benefit by entertaining a spiritual perspective.

That being said I have not gotten much from participation in the "God threads' as apparently there is little respect given to Christ or Christians by many forum members as evidenced by the "Sick of God threads" thread and many comments on such threads. Most Christians are driven away from this forum by the rude and adolescent comments. However, my last job was in a prison, so I am quite accustomed to that level of respect. I eventually gained the respect of the inmates who were my clients and I believe that eventually i might gain the respect of some of you "criminals" as well...

I have been forced to put into words, thoughts and vague musings concerning my own spirituality, in order to respond to the occasional thought-provoking comment. If I was not a member, challenged to explain my Self and my views - those thoughts and musings would have remained as intangible as wisps of vapor and just disappeared. Now at least those mental images are connected to words and have acquired substance of a kind... So I may have grown spiritually, in that I have expressed what had been just mere impressions...


This is kind of random and off topic, but, da blob, you remind me of the character from Brandon Sandersons book Elantris. The character Hrathen. After reading that book, and coming back here and reading posts by you, his character and you have somehow merged in my head, haha, so my imagery of him is who is talking when I read your posts XD

I don't know if you'll take it insultingly or positive, or even know what I'm talking about, but I see it as positive thing.

[eudemonia]

Interesting question Noddy and one which I find difficult to answer. I know I have changed as a result of my interactions on this forum but not quite sure how. I came across this forum at a time when I was exploring my own faith - which tbh I have always questioned ever since I became a Christian. I was exploring it with my father - an atheist - and I laid on a whole series of talks and read a lot in order to explore some of the questions he was raising. Since most of my friends are atheists I found it refreshing and challenging to come here and raise some of the deeper questions that were floating around in my head which I couldn't irl.

Coming here has made me think much more deeply about what I believe and I think the effect has been that I am less religious, less certain about lots of the claims made by 'Christianity', much more comfortable with my spirituality as a result and hence more 'spiritual' as a whole. I am happy to rest in my uncertainty about certain beliefs and I feel that uncertainty and humility are important aspects of any faith. They ensure that we rest in God's will rather than do things in our own arrogance and sense of rightness. People who believe that they are acting out God's will for them or for others scare me (Tony Blair is a good example).

But I have learned soooo much from regulars on the God threads - you, Crypt, AI and Fusion in particular - and I would like to think I have made some friends via them!!! :)

[Anling]

I don't usually participate, but the religion threads usually give me something to think about and make me examine my own beliefs.

[transformers]

They've made me question the validity of atheism somewhat more than I would've otherwise, but besides that they haven't really affected me.

[Minuend]

I used to be "religious" when I was ten. (How religious can you be at that age, really?) I was "spiritual" when I was 18. I didn't find truth in either. I'm pretty sure I'll be an atheist for the rest of my life. I have remained unchanged.

I should probably add that I was already atheist when coming here.

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

I will always be a somewhat spiritual person(note that spiritual does not=religion) Its society's lack of spiritual recognition that causes a lot of problems for everyone. I don't particularly feel like elaborating on it at the moment though.

[Cavallier]

...I believe that eventually i might gain the respect of some of you "criminals" as well...

I have been forced to put into words, thoughts and vague musings concerning my own spirituality, in order to respond to the occasional thought-provoking comment. If I was not a member, challenged to explain my Self and my views - those thoughts and musings would have remained as intangible as wisps of vapor and just disappeared. Now at least those mental images are connected to words and have acquired substance of a kind... So I may have grown spiritually, in that I have expressed what had been just mere impressions...

First of all, I respect you. That doesn't mean I agree with you. In fact I wholeheartedly disagree with you on most things but I respect that you think through what you believe. So many people don't apply an ounce of introspection to their beliefs. I'm glad that you do even if your beliefs contradict my own.

Oh, come on now! I think (or thought) we all know that thread is just a playful joke. I think we all get a little tired of the seemingly endless God debates sometimes and that thread provided a good outlet for the frustration and annoyance such debates are likely to cause. I think it's certainly preferable to blow off steam with a sense of humor than to have God arguments descend into insults, which I think has happened a few times.

I, for one, will say that I respect the Christians here. And I hope that no one, regardless of religious beliefs, is being driven away by rude comments. Although I think it's inevitable that such topics will occasionally yield comments perceived as rude by many. I don't think this is usually intentional though.

Ditto.

Oh, and back on topic: My spirituality hasn't changed since joining this forum. I had a bit of a waffle back in early college but I think I've reached a...a plateau of sorts for now.

[Da Blob]

First of all, I respect you. That doesn't mean I agree with you. In fact I wholeheartedly disagree with you on most things but I respect that you think through what you believe. So many people don't apply an ounce of introspection to their beliefs. I'm glad that you do even if your beliefs contradict my own.
Ditto.

Oh, and back on topic: My spirituality hasn't changed since joining this forum. I had a bit of a waffle back in early college but I think I've reached a...a plateau of sorts for now.

Well thanks! I certainly did not mean to include all members in my comments (apparently I have been observed "generalizing" a bit too often, I will try and become more conscious of it and try and modify my choice of words, otherwise it is just a case of the pot calling the kettle black:o)

[ld50]

My alignment isn't*likely to change here.* I started out as a staunch Christian (Anglican), but through the course of school ran into those incovenient truths of history, the sciences, then physics and economics.* Now I'm probably what would be labeled a Daoist or similar outlook and not likely to change far from that.

I'm more of a mind now that religions try to impose on people what can only come from within themselves with a mix of experience and introspection.* That's not to say that many faiths don't give people a decent grounding they may not otherwise start with, but mostly they go too far in replacing reason with belief and practicality with conformity (/oversimp. but you know what I mean).

I'd also agree that spirituality is something even an atheist can have some amount of as, to me, it is 'F's interpretation of and connection to the world (however far down an INTx's list that falls, it's still there).* I would say that I am spiritual without having to tie that to any charity, morality or belief in the existence of God, etc.

[Gorgrim]

this place isnt very spiritual but a pretty nice place for beginning thinkers, learned alot. Defining things, and trying to produce more clarity to ones thoughts, aswell as giving me an outlet for my curiosity and idealistic stuff. Now that ive grown abit, I think alot of people here are spiritually immature. I welcome people becoming more logical and reasoning individuals but sometimes I think of this place as a concepual prison - people become real easily trapped in all these ideas, they build this grand conceptual framework, but they're completely lost when it comes to simplicity. Simplicity isn't stupid, it's a consequence of an uncluttered mind. Think back when you were a child. This place was a neccesary path in my journey and no insignificant one in any case.


edit: the first option is theistic/spirituality - problem is, theistic has these religious supersticious connotations - one can be an atheist and spiritual at the same time!.

I mean, christianity and buddhism etc DID contain and still does, alot of good spiritual writings - but what >most< people do is ruin them. You don't throw pearls or diamonds to swine. Associating yourself with the mainstream religion is associating yourself with nutjobs - the exceptions are rare. and Even then, why would exceptions bother with the average christian?

[Da Blob]

It seems that you are a proponent of elegance in these matters... The elegance of a scientific theory, spiritual doctrine or solution to a problem being the degree to which it is pleasingly ingenious and simple .

Yet while Chanel said this “Elegance is not the prerogative of those who have just escaped from adolescence, but of those who have already taken possession of their future.” Einstein said this “If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor.”

[Inappropriate Behavior]

I think I missed this thread when it first started. I miss a lot though.

Since my sick of God threads club got mentioned, perhaps I should clarify why I made it. It wasn't "sick of God" it was "sick of God threads". The 'threads' being the operative word. It came as a reaction to both the abundance and redundance I had been seeing in them. The subject seemed at the time to take up almost half the threads and the arguments seemed to be the same thing over and over. I stand by my creation of that thread and am willing to revive it whenever it becomes necessary again (and it no doubt will).

As to the OP, I rather quickly chose the 'no change' answer even though that's not entirely accurate. I have come to a greater appreciation for the theist point of view which had been so negatively tainted by what I see around me and the people I meet in the world who call themselves "christian". There is so much ignorance/hate/negativity I see out there from such people that my I tend to take a hard line stance against belief. It's been fascinating to read logical arguments in support of a theistic belief system. Those arguments have not convinced me of much so thus my answer to the poll was the best I could give in the context of the question.

[citrusbreath95]

Well I am already Christean, I haven't really changed spiritually, I was offended and shocked a bit by the comments against Christ. I do find the discussions on him interesting and found that I really need to know more of God other than the basics that will get you saved. So, perhaps this forum has changed me spiritually in a way, that it has given me a bit of motivation. Motivation to read the Bible more, and get to know God more, not just to be saved and go to Heaven, but to have an understanding of why God does what he does. I mean just to understand the Bible, you have the key to life pretty much. So, this forum I suppose has given me some more motivation. :cool:

[Tyria]

I voted unchanged, but that's not quite right. I'm not sure if it has made me become more (or less spiritual), but the forum has made me think about spiritual things much more. When I see what others have written (and the depth behind it), I have to admit feeling a bit of envy at seeing others have such a deep conversation about something that is both interesting and relevant to those participating.

I do love to read it though :)

[RobdoR]

Same beliefs, but less ignorant.

I like to read the debates and occasionally post my own thoughts and watch to see if they will stand up or not. I can then analyze the arguments that got ripped into. Are my arguments invalid, or are the arguments against them invalid, or did I explain poorly and the point was missed, or is there a total difference in definitions and assumptions?

It makes me want to know my stuff, and has caused me to study philosophy and theology quite a bit more.

[thehabitatdoctor]

Another necro.

[scorpiomover]

More theistic. Made me more of the opinion, that I am wasting my time, to listen to what Rational atheists have to say, about almost anything.

[thehabitatdoctor]

I can say more theistic simply due to the fact that the topic is frequently under the microscope here and I can observe the arguments.

There is a question regarding those 45 who remained unchanged, i.e. what do they believe?

[thehabitatdoctor]

Just noticed the slight irony in that this^ was post #666 :eek:

[intpz]

I'm gonna be honest with y'all, I began laughing the second I saw this title, and continued to do so for about half a minute. :D

[snafupants]

I'm gonna be honest with y'all, I began laughing the second I saw this title, and continued to do so for about half a minute. :D

intpz

The spelling error and perfect idiocy of mentioning spirituality to a mob of nihilists doesn't aid matters.

I was honestly bemused for awhile after reading the presumptuous title. :slashnew:

[intpz]

@intpz (http://intpforum.com//member.php?u=5044)

The spelling error and perfect idiocy of mentioning spirituality to a mob of nihilists doesn't aid matters.

I was honestly bemused for awhile after reading the presumptuous title. :slashnew:

But the guy has over 4200 posts, how did he survive this mob of nihilists? :confused:

[Minuend]

Because nihilists unlike others close their minds to all outside opinions?

Here is or was a lot of intelligent and clever spiritual people, but since all discussions have become more of a pissing contest than exchange of ideas, they probably don't feel like posting too much.

[snafupants]

Because nihilists unlike others close their minds to all outside opinions?

Here is or was a lot of intelligent and clever spiritual people, but since all discussions have become more of a pissing contest than exchange of ideas, they probably don't feel like posting too much.

Minuend

Meh, perhaps that conjecture about their departure confuses cause and effect while overestimating their actual clout. Sometimes ideas with the same personnel become stale.

Not really on the opening point. Religious folk in my mind are more shuttered than atheists, who at least maintain the semblance of rationality among their bullshit. :D

[intpz]

Here is or was a lot of intelligent and clever spiritual people, but since all discussions have become more of a pissing contest than exchange of ideas, they probably don't feel like posting too much.

Good riddance, I say! Less religious posts, means more non-religious posts. :elephant:

[Da Blob]

Unless Nihilists are total fools (there are a few), they desire to escape from Nihilism. The problem being for them, is that many are just too damned egotistical to admit that they have fallen into a trap.

The behavior of a Nihilist is that of a trapped animal, but ego refuses to see the trap.

So Nihilists unconsciously want someone to set them free, but only by playing their little word game where the rules don't allow winners or escapes and categorizes all Nihilists as losers.


EDIT: Afterthought there is a relationship between Nihilism and the deep human fear of abandonment...

[Da Blob]

That's a pretty profound insight Da Blob. Did you conceive of that on the shitter?

Nope, just another brain fart that happened while I was typing....


BTW- Hint, Hint... to previous posters... it is not in the voices, but perhaps in the lyrics of old Christian songs... ( I love ambiguity)

Shackled by a heavy burden
'Neath a load of guilt and shame
Then the hand of Jesus touched me
Now I am no longer the same.
He touched me, oh He touched me
And oh the joy that floods my soul
Something happened and now I know
He touched me and made me whole.
Since I met the blessed Saviour
Since He cleansed and made me whole
I will never cease to praise Him
I'll shout it while eternity rolls.
He touched me, oh He touched me
And oh the joy that floods my soul
Something happened and now I know